Ami I going too fast?

[SubMariner]

Orange, you are being very prudent in asking the question: am I going too fast?

Walter (and others) make very valid points, not the least of which is "Why do you want to be an Instructor"? What exactly are your goals?

Take your time & gain experience; it is the most valuable teacher. Also, find the right Instructor(s) to mentor you. If this means changing dive shops, do it.

Agency affiliation is irrelevant. I know Walter has very strong opinions about this; please bear in mind that they are his OPINION, just as this is MINE. There are good and bad Instructors in EVERY Agency.

In the end it is the INSTRUCTOR that counts. You have to make a up list of criterion about what you want to learn and find someone who will work with you to achieve your goals.

BTW, your observation about some Instructors "not having fun" is a good one. When being an Instructor becomes "just a chore" or "just a job", then that person is "burnt out" and needs to move on to something else.

Just MY $0.02's worth

~SubMariner~

 

[Walter]

Cheryl,

Agency affiliation is not irrelevant. You know I wouldn't be happy in most agencies. Maybe I'm a maverick, but you know it's true. I agree it is not the most important factor in choosing an OW course, but if you are planning to teach, it becomes an important consideration. For some folks, it might not have any weight at all, for others it is all important, most of us are somewhere in between.

Regardless of which agency you represent, it is best if you believe in your agency's philosophy and methods. That doesn't make my agency right and your agency wrong. It makes my agency right for me and yours right for you. Agencies differ as much from each other as people do. The right fit is important. Of course this is all my opinion, but it makes it right for me and perhaps for others as well.

When are you going to go diving with me? You are welcome to bring Pearce along.

WWW™

 

[turnerjd]

Originally posted by Walter
My recommendation would be to learn CPR and First Aid from an EMT or Paramedic who is qualified to teach for American Red Cross or a similar organization. You'll get a much better class than from most dive instructors.

Walter (and everyone else)

Whilst I couldn't agree more with this sentiment, you are unlikely to learn anything remotely relevent to sports first aid from a standard first aid course.

It is all well and good learning the basics, however, the situation you will find yourself in for a diving accident will never be ideal. A really good diving first aid course should consider things like logistics - if you are diving off a zodiac type boat how and where do you do it? Do you know how to call for assistance if the person injured is also the only person that knows how to operate the radio? the oxygen set? If the coast guard decides to evacuate by helicopter do you have any idea what is going on and what will happen?

There are many places that do good general sports first aid courses, and some even tailor the course to specific sports and give you practice and time to think about specific problems you will encounter trying to perform first aid.

I did my first aid with http://www.marlin-net.co.uk and their catalogue is http://www.marlin-net.co.uk/training/PDFs/Courses.pdf (thanks guys!) which made me realise that although I had first aid certificates, I wouldn't have been much use in an accident as I hadn't thought through everthing.

Jon T

 

[Walter]

Jon,

Excellent points, but those items are all covered in the SLAM class. I haven't checked, but I certainly hope they are covered in other agencies' rescue classes as well. My point is it's better to learn how to deal with the actual injury from someone with real experience with injuries.

Mario, Cheryl, and other instructors,

Are these scenarios covered in your rescue class?

WWW™

 

[turnerjd]

Originally posted by Walter
Jon,

Excellent points, but those items are all covered in the SLAM class.

I am not familiar with SLAM - however, I assume it is another agency's name for the PADI rescue class.

The PADI course (rescue) doesn't cover anything like that. It mentions the O2 Kit, and if you are lucky you get to play with one (I know far too many people that had a 5 minute presentation on O2 and nothing else). As for more practical things, the PADI course has the 6 (if I remember correctly) exercises, and the practical assessment. The six exercises were different types of panicked diver, tows, surfacing with conscious and unconscious divers.....

The rescue courses I have DM'd on were very much in the water type diving management, and there was very little (if any) thought given to the fact that conditions to do first aid might me other than ideal, or that things like the radio might be necessary. Also, first aid specific to diving is barely mentioned - immersion hyperthermia as one example is not even mentioned (where sudden immersion in cold water causes the blood vessels to contract and the blood pressure to go sky high)

Most of the LDS's that I have come across use the mention of O2 in the rescue course as a selling point for an O2 admin course. In many ways rescue should be in two parts - the PADI style diving (actually getting in the water) part, and then a decent second part with a propper first aid, O2 admin, etc... It should also start people thinking about ethics of what they do, and the psychology of resuscitation.

Jon T

 

[Walter]

Jon,

SLAM - SCUBA Lifesaving and Accident Management is YMCA's rescue course and is the oldest recue course in the industry. If PADI's rescue course does not cover the scenarios you mentioned then it is nothing like SLAM.

SLAM is broken down into 3 sections similar to an OW class - classroom, pool and open water. CPR, First Aid and Oxygen Administration are required for, but not part of SLAM. If you are not current on all three you can't get a SLAM card.

SLAM breaks down the course into four parts - CARE - Cognizance - Assessment - Rescue - Evacuation and support proceedures. SLAM teaches one first how to avoid accidents, then how do deal with them. It stresses the thought process, not merely following a formula.

If other courses do not cover needed aspects of avoiding/dealing with accidents I'd recommend taking a SLAM course.

WWW™

 

[Conch]

Big Orange,

I hate to be gross about this... but you did say "BRUTAL HONESTY"

Are you prepared to do CPR or AR on someone? whether they are vomiting or not? whether you have your pocket mask handy? Most Instructors and Divemasters aren't.

Conch

 

[neil]

Walter,
I think the SLAM is very similar to the seldom-taught NAUI Advanced Rescue Course. The regular NAUI Rescue Course is about the same as the PADI course. The advanced course requires O2 training, and WSI or lifeguard training is "highly recommended".
Neil

 

[SubMariner]

Without going into too much detail, it would appear that the PADI Rescue Diver class covers similar areas. Basically, it's divided into Knowledge Development and Open Water.

KD involves academics (physiology, accident planning, exams, etc.) Open water includes techniques, practice and practical application which is usually geared to the local dive environment. The latter includes everything from handling panicky divers to locating an unconscious diver underwater, bringing h/h to the surface, and administering inwater AR while the rescuer removes both h/h gear and that of the victim, brings them to shore, etc., etc., etc.

The Rescue Diver course does not include actual CPR/1st aid training or O2 training, but rather application of techniques that the diver has already learned in the PADI Medic First Aid (and DAN O2) or in a similar accredited course such as Red Cross.

In order to be certified as a Rescue Diver, h/s must have current CPR/1st Aid training.

~SubMariner~

P.S. Walter: Pearce thanks you for the kind offer. We'll see what we can do.

 

[egg007]

Lets work the math
OW 4 dives
AOW 5 dives
Rescue diver 2-4 Dives
CPR/First aid no dives
DAN O2 no dives
Suba Master 5 dives minimum post AOL (at Instructors descretion)
Divemaster 8-10 dives (PADI 60 dives, Naui 25 dives).

You can reach Divemaster level in about two months with NAUI diving every Saturday and Sunday or about 4 months with PADI.

You can reach Rescue diver in 3-4 weeks after OW with PADI.

If you are talking about "experience" then the following could be a guide.

Boat diving 6 Dives
shore dive 6 dives
Navigation PADI speciality 2 dives
AOW 5 dives
Night dives 6
Deep dives 100-120 feet 6dives
Drift dive 6 dives
Altitude dive 4 dives
Freshwater/saltwater dives 6 dives
Lobster/ spear diving 6 dives
Free diving 50 feet with breath hold of at least 1 minute.

Snorkelling 10 sessions

Cold water/warm water dives 10 dives
Dry suit dives 10 including PADI speciality
GUE cave 1 8 dives
GUE tec 1 8 dives
Wreck dive 4 dives (Inc penetration)

A total of 115 dives.

Whats the point?

You need a balance of certification courses to teach you best practice and planned dives to achieve specific experience requirements.

I may be a AOW with a total of 6 dives post OW cert but I have already got a heck of experience, its quality sometimes not only quantity that counts