Andrea Doria lawsuit dismissed

[MikeFerrara]

diverbrian once bubbled...


There is enough press on this that I feel that everybody should draw their own opinions instead of hearing them outright.

I agree. However what some don't know is how many divers wearing doubles and carrying c-cards we see at places like Gilboa who can't dive worth a darn. I'll bet we saw a dozen this weekend and my OW students are better in the water.

The cards are for sale boys and girls.

 

[Tim Ingersoll]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
The cards are for sale boys and girls.

Well said.

 

[Tim Ingersoll]

mwilding once bubbled...
Click Here for a good piece on what happened.

Thanks for the web address. Adds a lot to the picture. He certainly had no business on that boat. I still fault the instructor for letting him book the trip in the first place but at least he was adamant about no penetration.

 

[jeffcali]

wow 6'6" and 350

if i was an instuctor, and i saw this dude wanting to get certified...i'd be running in the other direction.

i would never even want to be a buddy to someone so over weight. he didn't only put himself in danger, but everybody else around him.

that's quite selfish in my book...but it's sad a death had to come out of it. there seems to be a lot of things that went wrong here...

but thankfully...finally...somebody is held accountable for their OWN actions.

i wish more courts would recognize this...

 

[divemed06]

What happend to the gent is of course very sad...however, I have trouble dealing with these types of lawsuits. I guess people want answers...and sometimes money when these sort of things happen. If anything bad happened to me, dive related, I would hope that my family would not sue. I dive...I make sure that the dive site is appropriate for my level...I make sure that my skills are solid....I know my physical limits and don't dive past them...I do my research when it comes to charters, instructors, DMs (FA equipment, training etc..). If I decide to go ahead with the dive, I take full responsibility for myself. IMO if everyone did the same, diving could be even safer. The only catch...IMO, it all starts with your very first scuba diving class, the instructor you have and the impression that is given to you about the sport as a whole. It's sometimes hard to decide what's good and what isn't when you know very little about the sport; unfortunately, it's probably the most import time to recognize what is good and what is bad!

 

[michaelp68]

The whole thing seems incredibly sad to me.

I'm not particularly familiar with the facts of this incident beyond what's been stated in the threads on this board.

However, Mike F. and Divemed, I don't agree with the mentality that 'these types of lawsuits' are inappropriate or should be settled behind the barn.

The dive industry and dive professionals make money off of other people diving, and these other people who dive are not all experienced, knowledgeable or competent. They don't all know and dive their limits. Sometimes, they do not know better.

It's up to these people to know their limits and dive their limits. AND it's also up to the dive professionals to exercise judgment as well, since it is sometimes the dive professionals who are in a better position to judge whether a diver appears to know his/her limits and is diving within those limits.

Perhaps, in this tragic incident, the diver was at fault. Perhaps the dive professionals were at fault. Perhaps they were all at fault in combination with each other.

I don't want to see scuba diving overrun with lawsuits. But I also don't want to see any blame for bringing a lawsuit directed at a family looking to hold dive professionals who should have known better partially accountable.

No matter how you look at it, it's a risky activity. Divers are responsible for knowing/diving their limits. But the professionals are responsible too, and there's nothing wrong with holding them legally accountable especially when they clearly should have known better and were in the best position to know better.

If the dive industry does not 'self police' itself well enough, if too many professionals exercise 'deadly judgment' and if there's too much incompetence among some instructors, then perhaps some legal accountability is in order.

Just my two cents.

 

[pt40fathoms]

He panics on the surface, refused to accept his regulator, and drowned! This makes it a diving accident only because of the gear he was wearing. In reality, it would be more accurately labeled as a swimming accident.

Prior to his demise, he offered his instructor $1000.00 to take him into the wreck so he could retrieve a toilet? This to me is typical of people who have the mindset that money will bail you out of almost any problem. I've seen this type of person before, and know it's only a matter of time before they hurt themselves, usually taking along a few victims with them. We will always have people who believe that money can substitute for experience, and we will always have people ready to accept that money and turn the other way. I am in no way implying that the instructor on this dive was looking the other way, and would put forward the opposite in light of his refusal to take him into the wreck after being repeatedly asked to do so. My point is simply that he knew the risks, and clearly tried to buy his way around them. This can be considered one of the reasons for his death; trying to substitute money for experience.

I may sound callous in saying this, but I have very little sympathy for him. I do however feel sympathetic towards his family for their loss; even though I also feel the lawsuit was purely a money grab attempt on their part.

 

[Genesis]

It's up to these people to know their limits and dive their limits. AND it's also up to the dive professionals to exercise judgment as well, since it is sometimes the dive professionals who are in a better position to judge whether a diver appears to know his/her limits and is diving within those limits.

The VERY FIRST THING taught in OW is to know and dive within your limits.

Willful refusal to do that is nobody's fault but the person who does so.

Those who know me are aware that it is my expressed intent that if I cap myself as a consequence of a set of choices that I made, that they are specifically directed NOT to sue people to try to grab some money.

If they persist in doing it anyway, they had better be certain that there is no such thing as a poltergeist or a spirit world - because I have given my word (and warned them) that if they attempt to abuse the legal process in that sort of a fashion through abusing my dead body as their excuse I will haunt them until they draw their last breath, and screw their life so badly that no amount of money will be worthwhile.

That is, if there is such a thing as poltergeists

 

[michaelp68]

Genesis, I'm not so willing to excuse the incompetence of some professionals.

When the diver is stupid in not knowing/diving limits, it's that diver's stupidity which causes the injury.

When the professionals, people who make money off of the stupid diver, are also stupid and contribute to a tragedy through their own actions or inactions, they are also responsible.

Every properly trained and competent diver from complete beginner to longtime expert is aware that they're supposed to know and dive their limits and that they're responsible for their own safety.

But, the diver is not the only person responsible for safety.

It's an unfair and kneejerk reaction for people to assume that a grieving family filing a lawsuit is just looking for a payout. Sometimes, the family is looking for accountability and justice. There's nothing wrong with that.

 

[Genesis]

It's an unfair and kneejerk reaction for people to assume that a grieving family filing a lawsuit is just looking for a payout. Sometimes, the family is looking for accountability and justice. There's nothing wrong with that.

Particularly not in this kind of case.

This gent signed a multi-page, multi-paragraph waiver which he was forced to initial each and every clause.

It included not only clauses releasing Seeker and all associated with the trip, but also required notification of both the dive and the waiver to next of kin and all other interested family members.

Now if the boat had run him over, I would accept that there might be some responsibility to be partitioned out.

But that's not what happened.

It appears that he may have overstated his abilities and diving experience, and he certified himself as physically fit to make that dive when he may not have been.

What we dont' know is why he foundered on the surface. That he did is not in dispute - he did. That does not in any way, however, render the operator responsible.

Justice? Justice begins and ends with false representations of your fitness to participate in a particular activity. It also begins and ends when you have an affirmative obligation to inform your family not only of your intended plans, but that you have waived all rights to sue.

For his family to file suit under these circumstances is an act of fraud - on their part.

"Justice" comes if they are required to pay all costs of the successful defense against their claims.