Annoyed with Seafrogs quality (or lack therof)

[gummybun]

Not sure whom this is addressed to, ...

As always Barmaglot is first in line to lend a hand!

But sorry, I was meaning for Pyndle to put that in, so we can see the parts and movement issues - as what one person calls a post, I call a thingymabob etc, so I thought it would help get to the bottom of the problem. Interesting to see your procedure, I snug the zoom ring by pushing the camera down on a flat surface after loosely fitting the ring. I found it helps me keep it square and I put a 2mm spacer below the lens barrel. This way I keep my variables to a minimum.

While I do think production variation might be an issue, Pyndles' issue seems rather extreme. I wonder if he might have a focus ring from another lens - or some other like mix-up. I would like to see his set-up in action to see if I can replicate.

BTW my set-up is still going well with the bumper removed and a bit of silicone. Looking forward to using it again next month.

 

[Barmaglot]

But sorry, I was meaning for Pyndle to put that in, so we can see the parts and movement issues - as what one person calls a post, I call a thingymabob etc

That is actually quite clear - he's referring to these two posts:

If you put the zoom gear into the housing without a camera inside, then squeeze it so that it deforms into an ellipse and try to rotate the zoom knob, it will bind against those posts as there is minimal clearance there - less than 1mm in my sample - hence my suggestion to stiffen the gear to prevent deformation. Alternatively, if it's a case of production variation impinging on that minimal clearance, filing down these posts should resolve the issue. They are not structural, they are simply there to keep the camera in place.

 

[Pyndle]

Thanks a lot for helping out guys, really appreciate it. I am in the middle of nowhere in Indonesia with limited internet, I will upload a video as soon as I can because I also want to get to the bottom of it haha. But yes I was referring to the two poles in the red squares on the photo.

A few things:
Sea frogs responded to a photo I sent them :

We would like to inform you that most likely you are not completely drying the housing after thoroughly rinsing your housing.

We would also like to let you know that we can see exactly what the problem is, based on your photos you have a missing rubber band on the upper left side of the housing (inside) the photo is attached to this email. Exactly because of the lack of this rubber band the camera is not standing correctly and because of it zoom gear does not work and also because of it the flash does not open correctly. Please find this part and replace it.

I thought this was the hole in the middle left side (in red on my photo below), but I see that Barmaglot doesn't have it either so not sure what they're referring to?

I also see that Barmaglot, you are not using the plastic piece on the top left of the photo that fits into the 2 holes. I thought this was here to help stabilize the camera? But this also adds one step as I need to remove it to place the camera like you do, and it's hard to place back with the camera in it.

I am using the correct 16-50 ring though, the 10-18mm ring is much larger and would even turn on my lens if I accidentally mixed them up

@Barmaglot what do you mean exactly by stiffen the gear? What happens is exactly what you describe, when the case is not closed it works well, if I push the camera further in (as the case would if I closed it) it deforms the wheel and it hits those poles. But not sure how stiffening the gear would help? I'm leaning more towards what seafrogs says, a missing part that is not keeping the camera far away enough from the ring and thus creating too much pressure on it (although I can't see what part is missing).

Also on Sea Frogs comment - do you guys dry the case? I rinse it but then let it dry on a towel, like every other piece of gear I have.

 

[Barmaglot]

We would like to inform you that most likely you are not completely drying the housing after thoroughly rinsing your housing.

I'm not sure how to parse this. I dunk my camera in the rinse tank, work all the buttons while submerged in freshwater, then take it out and let it dry. When I'm on the Smiling Seahorse, they have an air tank in the camera room with a hose and nozzle attachment, allowing me to dry the housing quickly with a high-pressure stream of dry air. After a trip, I soak it for 24 hours and let it dry again. I'm not sure how different drying procedures can affect zoom gear operation.

We would also like to let you know that we can see exactly what the problem is, based on your photos you have a missing rubber band on the upper left side of the housing (inside) the photo is attached to this email. Exactly because of the lack of this rubber band the camera is not standing correctly and because of it zoom gear does not work and also because of it the flash does not open correctly. Please find this part and replace it.

They're referring to a flexible rubber piece that is inserted into that plastic piece on top left. It slides onto the T-shaped part in the middle. They sell it as a spare part - Spare part (Top left corner pad for a6xxx Salted Line)

However, that whole assembly gets in the way of inserting/removing the camera, and I have... misplaced mine years ago. In my experience it is absolutely not needed for proper operation of the camera. You could try removing the plastic part that holds it, like I did, and see if that helps with your issue.

@Barmaglot what do you mean exactly by stiffen the gear?

The gear is made of rubber, and is thus somewhat flexible. You could take a sheet of stiff plastic, cut out a ring matching the size of the gear where the '16-50mm' label is, and glue it onto the gear. This would give it extra stiffness and prevent it from deforming out of shape. Just an idea - I haven't tried it myself, as I haven't had a reason to.

Also, is it just a trick of the light, or do you have a section of about four or five teeth on your gear outright missing? If so, you should replace it - if that section gets on the driving cog, it will lose all contact and you will lose the ability to zoom. and while you can try to avoid that section (you don't need the entire 360 degrees to go through 16-50mm zoom range), hitting it by accident can ruin a dive. I don't see spare 16-50mm A6xxx housing gears offered on their website, but you might be able to get one by contacting support. If not, I have a spare set of 16-50mm+10-18mm gear from my old housing that leaked; let me know when you're back in Thailand.

 

[Pyndle]

I'm not sure how to parse this. I dunk my camera in the rinse tank, work all the buttons while submerged in freshwater, then take it out and let it dry. When I'm on the Smiling Seahorse, they have an air tank in the camera room with a hose and nozzle attachment, allowing me to dry the housing quickly with a high-pressure stream of dry air. After a trip, I soak it for 24 hours and let it dry again. I'm not sure how different drying procedures can affect zoom gear operation.

I think they said this in reference to the rust. But I've never heard of having to dry the camera, just rinsing.

They're referring to a flexible rubber piece that is inserted into that plastic piece on top left. It slides onto the T-shaped part in the middle. They sell it as a spare part - Spare part (Top left corner pad for a6xxx Salted Line)

However, that whole assembly gets in the way of inserting/removing the camera, and I have... misplaced mine years ago. In my experience it is absolutely not needed for proper operation of the camera. You could try removing the plastic part that holds it, like I did, and see if that helps with your issue.

Oh I see, I indeed don't have that piece but I don't think I ever did. Or maybe I did... will never know. But the fact that it works for you without the whole piece (rubber + plastic) kind of tells me this is a BS answer from seafrogs.
I tried with or without the plastic, I get the same issue. I've uploaded a video (sorry for swearing, when I started turning the zoom it was working so I was like "just my luck when I try to prove it doesn't work then it works", but it did end up clicking:

The gear is made of rubber, and is thus somewhat flexible. You could take a sheet of stiff plastic, cut out a ring matching the size of the gear where the '16-50mm' label is, and glue it onto the gear. This would give it extra stiffness and prevent it from deforming out of shape. Just an idea - I haven't tried it myself, as I haven't had a reason to.

Oh now I understand - yeah might be an option.

Also, is it just a trick of the light, or do you have a section of about four or five teeth on your gear outright missing? If so, you should replace it - if that section gets on the driving cog, it will lose all contact and you will lose the ability to zoom. and while you can try to avoid that section (you don't need the entire 360 degrees to go through 16-50mm zoom range), hitting it by accident can ruin a dive. I don't see spare 16-50mm A6xxx housing gears offered on their website, but you might be able to get one by contacting support. If not, I have a spare set of 16-50mm+10-18mm gear from my old housing that leaked; let me know when you're back in Thailand.

Trick of the light, they're all here it's the plastic piece that is hiding them. But thanks a lot for proposing that's very nice of you!!

 

[Barmaglot]

Dunno, maybe your a6500 is just slightly dimensionally different from my a6300? Can't really explain those issues that you're having. That rubber pad is supposed to push the camera down; it's possible that zoom rotation is pushing it up and to the right, causing gear teeth to bind against the upper right post. A piece of card stock between camera right side and the housing bumpers may help with it by pushing the camera to the left a mm or so.

 

[Pyndle]

I've tried placing some paper to adjust the position of the camera, haven't found anything that works reliably.

I'm not paying 18$ (incl. shipping) to get that piece of rubber that will likely not work anyways, I guess I'll keep using silicon. The only problem is to sell the case, I'm not sure how to present this (nobody will want to buy it )

 

[gummybun]

I think the wash comment is a full Red Herring. Your rust is inside hinge parts that can not be dried without compressed air - some stainless is just not up to marine use. Regarding the 'rubber band' - they are refering to the rubber 'seat' which is part of the (2 piece) upper left hand 'cradle'. You seem to still have the plastic piece of that cradle still installed (which is why it 'looked' like you were missing teeth on the gear.

Most people do not try to use these two parts as they really provide no function and make it nearly impossible to install the camera with reasonable effort. I quickly put my part aside and never looked back. When diagnosing my problems with Salted Line I sent Pictures and Videos and the never dared blame those 'missing' parts as the fault. My first advice would be to remove the remaining plastic 'cradle' in the upper left corner.

The 'post' you circled in the middle left is - I believe - redundant. Mine never had any bumper or any other fixture attached to it.

My second piece of advice is to try removing the rubber 'seat' from the (2 piece) 'cradle' on the Lower Left Side. This is what worked for me. That 'seat' was putting pressure on my 6400 and slightly rotating the camera body clockwise forcing the contact between the gear and the upper right hand 'post'.

As for the Video.... You know the camera did catch your only dialogue 'fu$#' - made me laugh. Should go viral. My first observation would be to ask if you 'set' your zoom ring before installing it into the case? My procedure, as I was instructed, is to position the zoom ring on the lens before inserting the camera. I put mine on part way, then push it down on a flat surface until the lens is flush with the ring - Then - i move the ring Forward 1 to 3 mm ( I find 2mm works for me) and only then do I Turn On the camera, then GENTLY ease it into position -while- lightly knuging the zoom knob back and forward so that it doesn't catch the rubber and shift it. There is a lot of wiggling and cajoling and the occasional explicative.

 

[Pyndle]

I think the wash comment is a full Red Herring. Your rust is inside hinge parts that can not be dried without compressed air - some stainless is just not up to marine use. Regarding the 'rubber band' - they are refering to the rubber 'seat' which is part of the (2 piece) upper left hand 'cradle'. You seem to still have the plastic piece of that cradle still installed (which is why it 'looked' like you were missing teeth on the gear.

Most people do not try to use these two parts as they really provide no function and make it nearly impossible to install the camera with reasonable effort. I quickly put my part aside and never looked back. When diagnosing my problems with Salted Line I sent Pictures and Videos and the never dared blame those 'missing' parts as the fault. My first advice would be to remove the remaining plastic 'cradle' in the upper left corner.

The 'post' you circled in the middle left is - I believe - redundant. Mine never had any bumper or any other fixture attached to it.

My second piece of advice is to try removing the rubber 'seat' from the (2 piece) 'cradle' on the Lower Left Side. This is what worked for me. That 'seat' was putting pressure on my 6400 and slightly rotating the camera body clockwise forcing the contact between the gear and the upper right hand 'post'.

As for the Video.... You know the camera did catch your only dialogue 'fu$#' - made me laugh. Should go viral. My first observation would be to ask if you 'set' your zoom ring before installing it into the case? My procedure, as I was instructed, is to position the zoom ring on the lens before inserting the camera. I put mine on part way, then push it down on a flat surface until the lens is flush with the ring - Then - i move the ring Forward 1 to 3 mm ( I find 2mm works for me) and only then do I Turn On the camera, then GENTLY ease it into position -while- lightly knuging the zoom knob back and forward so that it doesn't catch the rubber and shift it. There is a lot of wiggling and cajoling and the occasional explicative.

Thank you for your feedback.
I will try to remove the rubber seat and see.

I've tried both. When keeping that plastic piece on, it's almost impossible to set the ring on the camera then place the camera, so I usually place the ring, then insert the camera.

But I've also tried many times to place the ring on the camera first, remove that plastic part, place the camera, then add the plastic part (which is difficult to place back) - doesn't help either.

I don't have any dives planned this week but might the week after, I'll report back here (I don't trust what happens on land because I've had many times where it works on land and then clicks at depth).

Thanks!

 

[gummybun]

...(I don't trust what happens on land because I've had many times where it works on land and then clicks at depth)...

Don't I know the feeling!!! Good thing the fish are the only witness's to my profanities! Wish you luck.