OP
Any proof that dive computers improve safety?
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Damselfish
Contributor
sure. But I was thinking more of land ops that are mostly going out for 2 tank dives. And they don't want to hear the complaints of the people that come up earlier and are bouncing around getting seasick or bored while others are down. And they don't want to tell people to come up because that's just different people complaining. Or they dive in groups and don't want part of the people following tables (or worse yet the DM = nothing.) Yeah I know everyone is still not identical profiles, gas may be the limitation, etc. But it just seems I've heard of some ops thinking this way
OP
tarponchik
Contributor
Sorry, I did not get this part. What has air consumption to do with comps vs. tables? Also, the only times when everyone was required to surface together that I knew were on drift dives, for obvious reasons. However, in such cases divers just waited for the DM's command.
FishOutUvH2O
Contributor
Gas is the limiting factor for most divers diving a PDC. NDL's are the limiting factor for most divers diving tables.
Papa_Bear
Contributor
Just for the elimination of human error do to fatigue etc. would indicate that computer diving for 4 or more dives a day would be and are safer! DAN institutes many studies with the help of boats and resorts logging dives and complete info. I have participated in a number of them! I know I will never go back to table diving, my computer is here to stay!
DaleC
Contributor
I don't see how you could determine whether computers were safer by using statistical evidence anyways.
If divers (table or computer) were using them correctly there would be only a very remote chance of getting bent. We could say that most bent divers did not use either the tables or computers correctly. That being so, do you ascribe the fault to the instrument or the operator? Would someone who gets bent on a computer just as likely get bent using tables (and visa versa)? Just looking at computer vs table bent divers doesn't tell us which method is safer. It just tells us that on that particular day, using that particular method, that person made a mistake (unwarrented hits excluded).
Both are just tools. When used correctly both are relatively safe. When used incorrectly both can be unsafe. The owner of the boat gets to make the rules regardless.
If divers (table or computer) were using them correctly there would be only a very remote chance of getting bent. We could say that most bent divers did not use either the tables or computers correctly. That being so, do you ascribe the fault to the instrument or the operator? Would someone who gets bent on a computer just as likely get bent using tables (and visa versa)? Just looking at computer vs table bent divers doesn't tell us which method is safer. It just tells us that on that particular day, using that particular method, that person made a mistake (unwarrented hits excluded).
Both are just tools. When used correctly both are relatively safe. When used incorrectly both can be unsafe. The owner of the boat gets to make the rules regardless.
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Within the science community the introduction and now widespread use of computers has had no effect on our DCS incidence.
scubajim311
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i see you've missed most everyone elses point also, most people in this discussion have said that computers don't make diving safer. More convenient yes, more bottom time in most cases yes, easier to use for most people i'd say yes. If you don't want to/ can't afford a computer, who cares? you wanna dive without one, again who cares? If that means you can't dive off a boat or go on a liveaboard well tough thats there rules and if you don't like them sue(thats what everyone else does nowadays). Then You could buy your own boat and require those people to only use dive tables so you can feel special and have your own "tables only" club, if that would make you feel better
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Okay, it's a boring Sunday, so I'll give this one a shot.
Many liveaboards require a dive computer (we do not) for many reasons, but none of them are to make you safer. Scuba diving is not a safe sport, and a computer does not make it so.
With that said, I want to know your real profile. Since many are incompetent to use tables (or don't care to), I want to know how badly or how far you're in deco. That way, when I evacuate you to a chamber, I have an answer for the flight surgeon besides "Duuhhhh, I don't know". Whether you know your profile or not is irrelavant to me. I want to know what it is. And since if you're not responsible enough to wear a computer, you're probably not responsible enough to re-zero the little pointer on your rented depth gauge or bring a watch that can be used underwater.
Second, I want you to have the best experience possible. If you choose to dive tables, you will be bottom-time and depth limited on your second dive of the trip. When your buddies are hanging out with the manta at the end of the dive and you have to return to the boat (with a buddy) instead of hanging out with a manta, you're going to be pissed at me. And if you choose to hang out with the manta and violate tables, I'm going to sit you out for 24 hours, or until you're a clean diver again. That's going to piss you off too, then you will bitch and whine about what an ******* I am, and how you're never coming back, and you hope the boat sinks, and generally causing a sour attitude on the boat. I don't need that, and neither do the other passengers on the boat.
Third, I think training agencies suck. The last decent training agency was NASDS, and they couldn't compete with the 2 day course that other training agencies promote. The day some training agency tries to regulate the diving I allow on the Spree will be the day I give it back to the bank.
Frank
Many liveaboards require a dive computer (we do not) for many reasons, but none of them are to make you safer. Scuba diving is not a safe sport, and a computer does not make it so.
With that said, I want to know your real profile. Since many are incompetent to use tables (or don't care to), I want to know how badly or how far you're in deco. That way, when I evacuate you to a chamber, I have an answer for the flight surgeon besides "Duuhhhh, I don't know". Whether you know your profile or not is irrelavant to me. I want to know what it is. And since if you're not responsible enough to wear a computer, you're probably not responsible enough to re-zero the little pointer on your rented depth gauge or bring a watch that can be used underwater.
Second, I want you to have the best experience possible. If you choose to dive tables, you will be bottom-time and depth limited on your second dive of the trip. When your buddies are hanging out with the manta at the end of the dive and you have to return to the boat (with a buddy) instead of hanging out with a manta, you're going to be pissed at me. And if you choose to hang out with the manta and violate tables, I'm going to sit you out for 24 hours, or until you're a clean diver again. That's going to piss you off too, then you will bitch and whine about what an ******* I am, and how you're never coming back, and you hope the boat sinks, and generally causing a sour attitude on the boat. I don't need that, and neither do the other passengers on the boat.
Third, I think training agencies suck. The last decent training agency was NASDS, and they couldn't compete with the 2 day course that other training agencies promote. The day some training agency tries to regulate the diving I allow on the Spree will be the day I give it back to the bank.
Frank
DaleC
Contributor
I don't know enough about the agency thing but the rest was well said.
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