Aow=bs

[SparticleBrane]

It's as if people don't understand basic thermodyamics...

 

[MikeFerrara]

I think the term "AOW" is misused in syntax. People seem to feel it means "this diver has advanced skills." I firmly believe the term means "this diver has advanced their level of skill above OW."

I don't even think it means that. IMO, the problem with AOW is that it fails to go back and fix the skills that aren't taught or are taught incompletely in OW like buoyancy control, trim and propulsion. I think a careful read of the standards and simply watching some AOW classes illustrates the point pretty well.

Diving is mostly just controling your position and movement in the water column and most entry level courses fail to teach much about that. To add insult to injury, the AOW class takes the student out trying to do navigation, S&R, deep diving ect without being able to dive (control position and movement). Instead of having a diver who just kneels, we end up with one who can kneel and tie a knot.

I think they need to learn to dive BEFORE they learn to do something else while they dive and doing something else without the diving isn't of much value unless they are going to be doing it out of the water.

 

[scubaaaronh]

There are several of you who mentioned about my 100+ dives and TWO YEARS experience. As a matter of fact the first time I hit the water in the pool I knew that I had found a new home. Never had any MAJOR problems with buoyancy, weighting, finning technique, etc. I did use a little too much air at first but I conquered that problem quite smartly and in short order. But otherwise I took to diving like the proverbial duck did to water. My instructors and most of the dive ops who I am in contact with have stated that they were pretty much flabbergasted at the rapidity with which I learned the correct procedures of diving and the progression of my experience and that I surely had dived more in the past than I actually admitted to. One of you asked if I had taken the AOW "course" and the answer is NO. I contacted one of the posters on this forum about it and talked to an instructor who told me that the next time I got to the Keys that she would take care of it for me. When it came right down to it she told me that it was a waste of money in my case and didn't recommend that I go forward with it since it wouldn't benefit me in the least considering the type of diving I anticipated doing which is warm water reef and wreck diving. So I saved the money and will use it for an airlines ticket to South Florida or the Keys next month. Me arrogant? I suppose so.

I dove once (about four years ago) with a guy who was spouting out all the same crap as you are right now had close to the same number of dives as you blah blah blah. I was never more afaid of having to do a rescue in all my life. this guy who was a dive god in his eyes, and was the absolute worst diver i had ever been in the water with. The know it alls are the most dangerous in the water, even with the little bit of experience you have.

 

[The Logic Theorist]

There are several of you who mentioned about my 100+ dives and TWO YEARS experience. As a matter of fact the first time I hit the water in the pool I knew that I had found a new home. Never had any MAJOR problems with buoyancy, weighting, finning technique, etc. I did use a little too much air at first but I conquered that problem quite smartly and in short order. But otherwise I took to diving like the proverbial duck did to water. My instructors and most of the dive ops who I am in contact with have stated that they were pretty much flabbergasted at the rapidity with which I learned the correct procedures of diving and the progression of my experience and that I surely had dived more in the past than I actually admitted to. One of you asked if I had taken the AOW "course" and the answer is NO. I contacted one of the posters on this forum about it and talked to an instructor who told me that the next time I got to the Keys that she would take care of it for me. When it came right down to it she told me that it was a waste of money in my case and didn't recommend that I go forward with it since it wouldn't benefit me in the least considering the type of diving I anticipated doing which is warm water reef and wreck diving. So I saved the money and will use it for an airlines ticket to South Florida or the Keys next month. Me arrogant? I suppose so.

On one hand I sort of get where you're coming from, because much like you I have had a number of DMs tell me things like my buoyancy is excellent and I'm a very solid diver despite the very few dives I have actually logged. I try really hard not to let it go to my head though. 2 things come to mind when reading your posts:

1) You're talking smack on a class/certification that you haven't even actually taken. You have little to no idea what is required or what you might stand to learn by getting the cert. That, more than anything else, is what's making you come off as really arrogant. I did take AOW immediately after OW. I wanted to go on a charter boat trip that required AOW, and I've also known for a while that I wanted to get into technical diving, so AOW was one of many requirements. As far as the PADI certification goes, AOW is almost solely for divers to have experienced narcosis on the deep dive with an instructor before they are certified to go past 60', so they can identify narcosis if/when it hits them again and respond accordingly. That's it. The only thing it professes to do other than that is give you some exposure to other types of dives so you can figure out if you're interested in anything else. There is nothing in the marketing material, the book, or anything else that says you will be a wiz bang diver by the end of the course. For me, it was actually a very educational weekend. It was my first time diving in really cold water, my first time diving in really low viz, my first time getting seperated from my buddy, and a number of other things. It was totally worth the couple hundred bucks for 5 dives and instruction and a fun, challenging weekend.

2) I have had an obviously very experienced diver give me **** about my SAC on my 11th dive. Dude was a total dick, and I can guarantee I will never forget that. And you know what? That attitude is not helpful. At all. Your attitude is not helpful, at all.

 

[Web Monkey]

It's as if people don't understand basic thermodyamics...

Stop being such a whiner.

I checked almost a dozen references and couldn't even find the r-value of water.

The insulating capacity of a few mm worth must be incredible for it to have been kept secret for so long. Maybe NASA can use it on the outside of the shuttle instead of tiles.

Terry

 

[Web Monkey]

Not all dives go without problems. But almost all dives good or bad are still worth it.

The good dives are nice, but the bad dives are much more valuable.

Terry

 

[jviehe]

:no Just came back from the Keys and was on the boat with a guy who had an AOW card. He had logged 25 dives up to then, mostly in springs and a couple of cave dives. Wore a 5mm Farmer John and 5mm shorty in Keys water. (You can figure the lead he carried.) Had trouble hooking up his regs correctly, couldn't figure out the giant stride, had a hell of a time getting his BC on and fins off and onto the boat. NO buoyancy control. Puked after both dives. Swam with his arms mostly and used up air like a steam engine. So much for the AOW rating in this particular case.
I'm a .

Perhaps you should title your thread better then. "AOW = BS in this one particular case". Slandering the entire certification at once is pretty irresponsible. Especially when we cant check your story. I have a hard time beleiving that someone who has done cave diving cant hook up their regulators. Based on this information alone, I would say this guy was exhibiting passive panic.

 

[hlsooner]

Mechanical engineer putting very little calculations into this post to keep it simple.

Water is a fantastic heat conductor, see power plants everywhere.

Foam rubber is a relatively good insulator.

Bare skin in the ocean is getting an enormous amount of heat drained from it by water's good conduction properties.

With a wetsuit on, rubber insulates the skin and dramatically reduces heat transfer out. Any water getting into the suit results in more heat loss due to the body having to heat the water; and this mystical water layer, heated by the body, is still acting as a great conductor of heat out of the body, it just has to get through the neoprene now. But I can't see any thermodynamic explanation for how the water inside the suit "insulates" unless someone claims the skin/water/neoprene/water heat transfer is somehow less than skin/neoprene/water.

 

[jviehe]

As far as the PADI certification goes, AOW is almost solely for divers to have experienced narcosis on the deep dive with an instructor before they are certified to go past 60', so they can identify narcosis if/when it hits them again and respond accordingly. That's it. The only thing it professes to do other than that is give you some exposure to other types of dives so you can figure out if you're interested in anything else. There is nothing in the marketing material, the book, or anything else that says you will be a wiz bang diver by the end of the course.

Not entirely correct. The course is now called Adventures in Diving, and the idea is to introduce divers who have basic scuba diving training to differnt diving conditions and experiences. The AOW cert reqs are also to improve your diving skills specifically in navigation and deep diving, as these have specific risks. Im not sure where youre getting your info, but its not from an official source. The diver mentioned in the OP, if the story is accurate appears not to have mastered or recall basic things learned in OW.

 

[The Logic Theorist]

Not entirely correct. The course is now called Adventures in Diving, and the idea is to introduce divers who have basic scuba diving training to differnt diving conditions and experiences. The AOW cert reqs are also to improve your diving skills specifically in navigation and deep diving, as these have specific risks. Im not sure where youre getting your info, but its not from an official source. The diver mentioned in the OP, if the story is accurate appears not to have mastered or recall basic things learned in OW.

I do not see where what you said AOW is for is any different from what I'd said it was for. You lost me on what was incorrect that I said, could you be more specific?

Also, the book is called Adventures in Diving and the dives are referred to as Adventure Dives, but the certification is still called Advanced Open Water, at least for PADI.

PADI Advanced Open Water Diver Course Details