Aow=bs

[The_DivePirate]

Most certs are PADI certs, so its not much risk to assume its PADI. The criticism is also consistent with the typical PADI bashing. The problem here is as usual you blame the agency, and not the diver.

I'm still not sure where I'm laying the blame on PADI?, other than allowing instructors under their control too turn out sub par divers. It has nothing too do with PADI's criteria for open water divers, it has too do with the their instructors not holding a high enough standard to the STANDARDS! If NAUI,SSI, or TDI/SDI were as big as PADI, they may be the agency battling the bashing. It just seems as if, as always, when you become the largest company/agency you no longer have too keep as tight a reign on the activities at hand. If there was a penalty for certifying divers that did not actually meet standards, that may keep these issues from surfacing.(no pun intended) Too many are more worried about their pocket books, than the safety of new divers. I was happy too pay for a little more training when my wife did not pass her confined water dives. I felt the LDS that was working with her did not feel she was confident enough in herself too be a SAFE diver. I believe there should be more of this mind set from instructors, that way instructors would not feel so impelled too just send students through. It also comes back to the LDS's in that they don't want too be known as a place that fails students, so that people will go to other places too become certified. But, if all LDS's would step up too this type of commitment too safety we would probably see much less of these stories. Let's make this clear right here and now, I don't believe it is the agencies fault that students are being certified without ALL skills being mastered. It seems too me that it is an issue of self pride or lack of, in this case. In most cases, not all, you can only learn what you are taught, and do what you are taught only as well as were taught it.
I could keep on going with this, since I'm so passionate in this stance, but I don't believe it would do any good!!! So, with that said, I can only hope that I don't ever get to a point that certifying a student that doesn't meet standards, overides the need for the cash or bad remarks from said diver against my business.

Joe

 

[sharky60]

Just because you have another patch for your shoulder, doesn't make you a good diver...diving does. There is no better teacher than experience.

I've been a diver for over 25 years, I only have an Open Water cert., I actually took the Advanced course just after being certified, but didn't get to do the night dive requirement because I cut my arm pretty bad the day of the dive and we decided that diving in the tiger shark infested waters of Midway Island at night with an open wound would not be a good idea...go figure.

Then my instructor got shipped to his next duty station before I managed to heal and do the dive, so I didn't officailly ever get the cert.

Again, this was 25 years ago and for many years I wouldn't take the class again just out of stubborn principle, can't help it, I'm German .

Now most of diver friends ask "what's the point? You've been doing this for so long and dove so many situations and conditions, there really doesn't seem to be a reason to spend the money." I agree.

I will be forever greatful for my instructor, Jesse Lowder, who was a 25 year veteren diver in '81 when he certified me, and had dove all over the world. He instilled all the diving principles I still use today, most of all safety. Being on an isolated island with the nearest chamber a 15,000 mile plane ride away in Honolulu, safety was a big thing drilled into our brains.

 

[seaducer]

Most certs are PADI certs, so its not much risk to assume its PADI. The criticism is also consistent with the typical PADI bashing. The problem here is as usual you blame the agency, and not the diver.

Yeah, size I think has everything to do with it. Too bad there isn't a way to check what percentage of certified divers are "bad" divers, from each agency. If 10% of all divers have issues that relate to the PADI bashing, of course you are going to notice more PADI divers, since there is so many more of them.

I don't think there is much difference in most agencies OW course and standard, but I don't want to re-open the PADI vs SDI again either :11:

 

[seaducer]

Now most of diver friends ask "what's the point? You've been doing this for so long and dove so many situations and conditions, there really doesn't seem to be a reason to spend the money." I agree.

Diving since '81, no point at all unless you find yourself with a dive op that requires it in order to dive where you want, or you want to get another cert which has AOW as a pre-requisite.

I think most divers get the AOW experience on their own within a couple of years or even less if they dive a few times a year, but it is a great way for a brand spanking newbie to advance their training experience and confidence, or a great way for a newish diver who had a year or two off to get wet again with a review and supervision without the boredom of a pool. I think many divers who should take a refresher don't because they will be in a pool again and figure they don't need that, but if they are just OW certified with a couple vacations under their belt in the last 5 years, really helpful to take the AOW...IMO

 

[The Kraken]

There is a delightful, old adage which applies to all of us from time to time . . . .

"If you're not a part of the solution, you're a part of the problem."

the K

 

[littlejohn]

I must be a bad diver as well, I can't zip my own drysuit.

But you can use a light?

 

[caymaniac]

:no Just came back from the Keys and was on the boat with a guy who had an AOW card. He had logged 25 dives up to then, mostly in springs and a couple of cave dives. Wore a 5mm Farmer John and 5mm shorty in Keys water. (You can figure the lead he carried.) Had trouble hooking up his regs correctly, couldn't figure out the giant stride, had a hell of a time getting his BC on and fins off and onto the boat. NO buoyancy control. Puked after both dives. Swam with his arms mostly and used up air like a steam engine. So much for the AOW rating in this particular case.
I'm a .

I think AOW is Bs as well, maybe you should poll this question.
I have over 1000 dives and I can't see the advantage that AOW ever had, what wrong with just having "open water" and then go on your own, shore dive, dive when the water is cold, learn about diving on your own. The more dives you make you'll find that something will happen and you'll have to deal with it at an emergency level. Keep your head clear and don't panick, be ready for anything from an OOA emergency to a dive accident, think ahead what are your plans if this were to happen on your next dive.
Do you have redundancy? Where is your octo., where is your buddy, what does your computer say every 10 to 15 minutes? Stay on top of it, dive safe.

 

[Zoomer]

It may be BS for most divers that have several dives under heir belt already, however for the newer diver it does give them the opportunity to do 5 more dives, experiencing new dive environments, with a qualified instructor... and I believe this was the purpose for the AOW certificate.

Just my opinion...

 

[jviehe]

I'm still not sure where I'm laying the blame on PADI?, other than allowing instructors under their control too turn out sub par divers. It has nothing too do with PADI's criteria for open water divers, it has too do with the their instructors not holding a high enough standard to the STANDARDS! If NAUI,SSI, or TDI/SDI were as big as PADI, they may be the agency battling the bashing. It just seems as if, as always, when you become the largest company/agency you no longer have too keep as tight a reign on the activities at hand. If there was a penalty for certifying divers that did not actually meet standards, that may keep these issues from surfacing.(no pun intended) Too many are more worried about their pocket books, than the safety of new divers. I was happy too pay for a little more training when my wife did not pass her confined water dives. I felt the LDS that was working with her did not feel she was confident enough in herself too be a SAFE diver. I believe there should be more of this mind set from instructors, that way instructors would not feel so impelled too just send students through. It also comes back to the LDS's in that they don't want too be known as a place that fails students, so that people will go to other places too become certified. But, if all LDS's would step up too this type of commitment too safety we would probably see much less of these stories. Let's make this clear right here and now, I don't believe it is the agencies fault that students are being certified without ALL skills being mastered. It seems too me that it is an issue of self pride or lack of, in this case. In most cases, not all, you can only learn what you are taught, and do what you are taught only as well as were taught it.
I could keep on going with this, since I'm so passionate in this stance, but I don't believe it would do any good!!! So, with that said, I can only hope that I don't ever get to a point that certifying a student that doesn't meet standards, overides the need for the cash or bad remarks from said diver against my business.

Joe

Sorry, I meant the royal you, as in the OP, which claimed the certification was BS. It isnt. It is just this particular divers skills were BS. It probably has nothing to do with his training.

 

[24940]

Sorry, I meant the royal you, as in the OP, which claimed the certification was BS. It isnt. It is just this particular divers skills were BS. It probably has nothing to do with his training.

Are you saying his skills were great after passing the course, but went to crap after going AOW? Do you not believe there are many crappy PADI courses where little is learned? Sure, there are crappy SSI and NAUI courses, but I would also bet there are more crappy PADI divers than any other agency.