AOW Disappointment

[Caver95]

This kind of crap would not fly in FUCEM. if a FUCEM mentor did this kind of sheet, He or she would be keel hualed, its in the standards.

 

[Hoosier]

My AOW was a horrible experience ever at LDS.

The bottom time on each dive was 16 min (>21 min on PADI standard). LDS asked me to go to the Florida trip to complet a deep diving part (Of course, it is all extra money). During AOW, the fatty instructor wasn't even in the water and I have dived with a DM candidate. Wasn't it great that you could teach a diving with your own lips on the ground?

It was a nitrox combined dive and my nitrox tank is 26% as I recall. Of course, it was a self studying with a book and DVD and I took an exam in 20 min. He said, "You pass." LOL~~~

I didn't ask DPV course in AOW, but I had to do it without any agreement because it was the easiest option they offered. Yes, what I have done was just to ride DPV.


After then, I sent a memo and get a deep part done in my area without going to FL trip. He thought he was threatend because I have sent a written memo.

After then, I was told by a local diver that I complained because a DPV time was a too short for fun.

Can you believe this story? That is another part why I don't like PADI. How could PADI give away an instructor card to this kind of instructor? Even, he had a hard time to bend the knee because of his weight.

Sure, I still keep all documents for a legal record... My attonery actually asked me to go to the court though.

 

[Hoosier]

Is an MBA educated at Harvard, better at business than the MBA educated at Ohio State?
Maybe, but probably not. The Harvard MBA may be presented with more opportunities. It ultimately depends on experience, using multiple sources for information, the quality of the teachers, the effort put forth by the students, and continued education.

I don't know how your logic applies for the diving education though.

If you have ever taught an undergraduate and graduate level classes in the university, YES. HAVARD EDUCATED IS much better. The average level of student in the classroom is a totally different between Harvard and OSU. I am not degrading OSU, but it is fact that there is a quality difference. As money talks, the job market explains all about this matter.

 

[SmokinReefer]

I don't know how your logic applies for the diving education though.

If you have ever taught an undergraduate and graduate level classes in the university, YES. HAVARD EDUCATED IS much better. The average level of student in the classroom is a totally different between Harvard and OSU. I am not degrading OSU, but it is fact that there is a quality difference. As money talks, the job market explains all about this matter.

While the average level of student surely differs between the two schools, an excellent education can certainly be had at the lesser school for those who seek it out.

Speaking from experience, the hardest part about prestigous schools is getting into them. Once in, most people can at least graduate. Graduating from a prestigious school does come with intangibles though, just as you and Divedoggie sort of allude to. These schools have networks, name recognition and such. The name alone has opened doors for me on more than one occasion and all I got was a measly 2.98 GPA.

Pure and simple, it's a brand name that my parents could afford. I did have 1400 on my SATs and graduated from high school at 16, but I bet there were plenty of kids at OSU that could have kicked the academic sh!t out of me......

 

[Walter]

you made factual claims about PADI training which are not consistent with what I know from actually BEING a PADI instructor. This is what I take issue with.

I understand this, but from my studies, I believe your facts are the ones in error. The bottom line in this discussion is we disagree over what exactly are the facts.

Of course the following is taken directly from thwe official PADI website:

Move up and experience real adventure with the PADI Advanced Open Water Diver course.

Looks to me like they are calling it a course.

 

[Hoosier]

Pure and simple, it's a brand name that my parents could afford. I did have 1400 on my SATs and graduated from high school at 16, but I bet there were plenty of kids at OSU that could have kicked the academic sh!t out of me......

No... When we talk about an average, it is totally different. I also belong to a BIG Ten league. There are a lot of variation on the level of students among a BIG Ten students. Though there are a lot of excellent students who could get into a prestige school, there are many many students who depreciate a quality level. This is a simple fact and limitation on the state university. That is, the prestige school doesn't have any pressure on their screening process to give an admission. Like you said, "Once you get it, it is easy to graduate." But, why do you think it is difficult to get in?

As for MBA, MBA, LAW, or MPA are the professional school after the college and job experience. It is unlikely related with any parent scholarship and even school funds. Many students are funded by their employers or their own money including a loan. Therefore, it isn't only money matter.

 

[rakkis]

...
In diving, we are given standards which must be met. These are our base guidelines.
It is sad to see that instructors and dive centers use only this foundation and call it a building.
...
PADI gave me my training. They didn't fail me. I choose to know more and to do more, not to sit and criticize.

:yelclap: :yelclap: Hear, hear!

 

[Divedoggie]

I don't know how your logic applies for the diving education though.

If you have ever taught an undergraduate and graduate level classes in the university, YES. HAVARD EDUCATED IS much better. The average level of student in the classroom is a totally different between Harvard and OSU. I am not degrading OSU, but it is fact that there is a quality difference. As money talks, the job market explains all about this matter.

Yes, I have taught, and I currently am teaching an undergraduate level class at a University. I imagine that the average level of student in the classroom at Harvard is different than the average student at OSU.

That is why I stated that the Harvard graduate might be presented with more opportunity.

BTW, I randomly chose OSU because I was rooting for them last night! They simply represent a State University, where most people are educated, versus the status and reputation of Harvard, where an elite few are educated.

My point is that there are some exceptional students and some exceptional teachers at OSU. Likewise, there are a few unmotivated students who may attend Harvard just because its a family tradition.

Immediately after graduation, a Harvard MBA has the advantage, mostly through reputation. Graduates in the real world can take their degrees, from either college, and make the career that they chose to make. They can just get by, or they can push the boundries of their imaginations. In the end, the odds even out, and there are many highly successful executives who are the product of State Universities

The parallel with diving is that there are many Padi divers (like state Universities) and fewer Technical/Cave/DIR/GUE/HOG/YMCA/LAC, or Thalassamania, or Walter trained divers (like Harvard.)

These people have the exceptional curriculum. These people have a niche.

Yet, there is something unsettling and askew with this analogy. Harvard does not attack OSU students and Professors, claiming that they will starve to death without a job. That their only salvation is Harvard. Instead, Harvard sets the standard and expects those who think that they have the smarts and skill, to find them and to apply.

Padi divers and instructors have the opportunity to be exceptional, or to just slide by.

Its sad that so many choose to just slide by, that is a part of culture now, and that the mass market appeal is mediocrity. Sliding by and mediocrity in diving can spell disaster. This is is the crux of the argument. The way to address it is from the bottom up.

If I teach diving as a Padi instructor, I have the opportunity, the goal, and the personal challenge to train and certify safe and solid divers, and for every one of those former students to be alive and well with the C-card in a safe place, years from now. My name and dive center are on that card forever. That is serious business to me.
If I cannot do a great job, then I will not do it at all.

I am not the only motivated Padi Instructor, working with motivated students. They are everywhere, if you look beyond bias.

 

[plot]

Well, then you are right to not be a PADI instructor. I have no problem with you expressing your opinion. However, you made factual claims about PADI training which are not consistent with what I know from actually BEING a PADI instructor. This is what I take issue with.

Apparently what you KNOW from actually BEING a PADI instructor, differs from what's ACTUALLY posted on PADI'S website. This is where all the confusion is coming into play.


I'm sure you go above and beyond PADI's standards and that you are a decent instructor who gives your students what they fully deserve (if you didn't care about them or diving, we probably wouldn't see you hanging around on this board), but I hope someday you can step back and see the points other people are trying to make in this thread about AOW being a money making joke of a course much like alot of the other crap PADI (and other agencies) offer just to make a dollar.

OW is just fine how they have it becuase, let's face it, 90% of all divers never go below 30-40 feet while being supervised by some DM so how much training do they really need? Hopefully they get some practice in each year before going on their vacation where they tour a reef somewhere and look at the pretty vibrantly colored fishies. I hear about the occasional newbie death where the person simply didn't follow any of their most basic training and drowned in 20 feet of water with no buddy in site... but for the most part it's people with plenty of experience attempting more advanced things... may they RIP.

When someone takes an AOW class, it's probably becuase they wanna go beyond that threshold in the water were you know, all the colors are still nice and bright... and PADI, as well as many of the other agencies for that matter, really don't do anything at all to prepare a student for that... yes, they drill it into peoples heads not to dive outside their limitations, but they also do very little to help expand those limitations.

 

[Hoosier]

My point is that there are some exceptional students and some exceptional teachers at OSU. Likewise, there are a few unmotivated students who may attend Harvard just because its a family tradition.

I think we have agreed on this part already.

Immediately after graduation, a Harvard MBA has the advantage, mostly through reputation. Graduates in the real world can take their degrees, from either college, and make the career that they chose to make. They can just get by, or they can push the boundries of their imaginations. In the end, the odds even out, and there are many highly successful executives who are the product of State Universities

When we compare and rank the school, specially for the professional school. it is mainly based on the mean, minium cutting score, and job market. And, if you track down the current status of graduates, there is also a huge difference between OSU and Havard graduates depending on your perspectives. I have two professional graduate degrees from the #3 ranked school (state) in the nation (Of course Havard is still #1 ranked). However, there are a huge gap in those three factors above and even after the graduation.

Yet, there is something unsettling and askew with this analogy.

Now I can see you point more clearly... But, you are saying two different things, average and few successful outcome.

My name and dive center are on that card forever. That is serious business to me.
If I cannot do a great job, then I will not do it at all.

You must be a good instructor (including Thalassamania, or Walter) by saying this... But, it isn't easy to find a good PADI instructor like yourself everywhere to an average "Joe" diver. When we find out all mess, it is already late.