Back Inflation BC is SUICIDE!!!

[Dyno Bill]

She's touching stuff? here in So Cal we can touch stuff. The kelp grows at near 2 feet a day and the fish are pretty rugged too.

 

[Randy43068]

the key is proper placement of your weights. I made some posts here how to correct the issue of laying on my face and got some really good solutions to the problem. I use a 3# weight on my top tank band wich solved the problem. I like my back inflate BC.

Thats what my new instructor says!

I love back inflation BC but my instructor advises against them very strongly. His argument is as follows:

SCENARIO A - If a diver looses consciousness underwater, his dive buddy inflates his BC he will rise up to the surface. If he has not dropped the reg from his mouth there is chance of him surviving - provided he is wearing a jacket style as that would keep his head way up the water once on surface. If he is wearing a back inflation nstead then the BC will keep his head tilted below the surface raging surface water will beat the reg away from his mouth and Guaranteed drowning!

SCENARIO B - If you get drifted away into the ocean (like the characters in the movie OPEN WATER) and you are stranded in the ocean for hours you would not want to be wearing a back inflation BC. Unless you deliberately float on your back the back inflation BC will kill you just like in scenario A!

Who agrees / disagrees with this logic and why?

 

[Otter]

All hypothetical scenarios..........I think a back inflate BC will work great during an earthquake.

(A) I would like to know how many times dive buddies have sent their buddies to the surface. In the world of REC diving, there is no need for that, as you will always be within your NDL limits. Take him up while holding the regulator in his mouth – rescue class.

(B) The only reason these BC’s push your forward, is because they are over inflated. Let some air out, and you will hang vertically in the water. In fact, just fill them with helium so that you hover above the water.

I don’t understand how instructors don’t know this……….

Helium is tou expensive, use hydrogen instead. That way it will be easier to start a signal fire, albeit an abrupt one, if you are floating out in the middle of the ocean.

 

[trob09]

I've been diving for over 35 years. Of those I used a back inflate or wing for about 25 of those years. In that time I've come back to the cut end of an anchor line which resulted in a +20 mile swim back to the beach, been parylized by a neurotoxin at 160' and been "left at sea" out of contact with the boat a great many times for various reasons. Given a choice in all conditions I prefer a back inflate, preferably with a steel tank. The ~ 10 years I used a jacket was simply because I couldn't find a wing bladder until the DIR crowd started developing them.

FT

With all due respect, the DIR crowd didn't develop the wing. I was using my AtPac _WAY_ before DIR ever hit the streets and before Greg Flannigan 'invented' the backplate. There have been improvements since then - no question. But the basic design has been around since at least the mid 70's when I began diving.

And these same arguments about safety and impending death were made back then too...

 

[Northeastwrecks]

Thats what my new instructor says!

I love back inflation BC but my instructor advises against them very strongly. His argument is as follows:

SCENARIO A - If a diver looses consciousness underwater, his dive buddy inflates his BC he will rise up to the surface. If he has not dropped the reg from his mouth there is chance of him surviving - provided he is wearing a jacket style as that would keep his head way up the water once on surface. If he is wearing a back inflation nstead then the BC will keep his head tilted below the surface raging surface water will beat the reg away from his mouth and Guaranteed drowning!

SCENARIO B - If you get drifted away into the ocean (like the characters in the movie OPEN WATER) and you are stranded in the ocean for hours you would not want to be wearing a back inflation BC. Unless you deliberately float on your back the back inflation BC will kill you just like in scenario A!

Who agrees / disagrees with this logic and why?

I believe that your instructor's statement are amoungst the stupidest things I've ever read on this Board.

Scenario A: If I'm surfacing an unconscious diver, I'm going with him/her. I'll worry about keeping their head out of the water when I hit the surface.

If I'm on a deco profile, I'll drop back down and complete my deco (with lots of additional time to account for the ascent) after the boat crew takes over.

Scenario B: I've been diving back inflates since I started diving. I've never found them to push my face into the water unless I (1) overinflate; and (2) fail to lean back a little bit. I've had to spend considerable time sitting on the surface for various reasons and have never had any problem keeping my face out of the water.

Overall, it sounds like your instructor is wholly unqualified, that he has no actual experience with back inflates and that he is pushing an agenda, i.e., his shop doesn't sell back inflates or has a better margin on poodle jackets. It also sounds like he is too stupid to teach anything more complex than snorkeling, and that should be done under close supervision.

I'd have serious reservations about continuing with him.

 

[FredT]

With all due respect, the DIR crowd didn't develop the wing. I was using my AtPac _WAY_ before DIR ever hit the streets and before Greg Flannigan 'invented' the backplate. There have been improvements since then - no question. But the basic design has been around since at least the mid 70's when I began diving.

And these same arguments about safety and impending death were made back then too...

I dove both the AT-Pac and Scubapro BCP wings when they first came out, after several years diving with a May West type snorkle vest on the occasions when I wore a "BC". The BCP wings went through 3 bladders and well over 4000 hours in the water before SP refused to send me another one, since they were out of stock and out of production. They eventually all resembled an air stone, leaving a curtain of VERY small bubbles behind me. There was about a 10 year hiatus on single bladder wing availabiliy in "normal" commerce until the cavers started bringing them back. In the meantime I got to use a SP "double black" jacket. It did just fine for another thousand hours or two once I'd stripped all the fru-fru things like pockets and plastic D-rings off it. It got retired when the wings came back to being available.

FT

 

[Nemrod]

"There was about a 10 year hiatus on single bladder wing availabiliy in "normal" commerce"

Yes it was slim for awhile but I think that the SeaTec Seahorse was around all during that time. I have one, it is a horsehoe shaped wing with about 45 lbs total lift. Works fine after tons of dives. SeaQuest also made one during that time also I think. Many of these older type wings had more lift than needed for warm water diving and also tended to wrap the tank but really, I never had any problem with mine. I am sure the new rigs are far better but they were better than the other "jacket" options and other foolishness available back then and even now. N

 

[Nemrod]

Oh, this one was bought in the early 80s, like about 82 I think, could be wrong, I had another but it was lost in transist somewhere. I put the pic for you to see what I am talking about. I think the newest piece of gear here is about 86 except maybe the watch. N

 

[FredT]

Oh, this one was bought in the early 80s, like about 82 I think, could be wrong, I had another but it was lost in transist somewhere. I put the pic for you to see what I am talking about. I think the newest piece of gear here is about 86 except maybe the watch. N

They were out there, but with the hazards of hunting the Rigs a single heavy bag lasts a lot longer than the 2 or 3 trips a bag in a bag seemed to last. Something about being the pinball behind a large AJ and bouncing off the barnacles is hard on equipment, and the diver. The SeaTec was a poor compromise for the intended use.

FT

 

[Nemrod]

Fred, yes I know of what you speak, those rigs can be rough on gear. I have bunches of gear, I have them divided up into two vintage sets, two classic sets (the one I pictured above) and then I have a modern rig, BP and wing.
Here is a pic of one of my vintage sets. I show it to you because it has the Dacor horsecollar BC. This particular BC has two chambers. The upper chamber can be inflated by an oral tube or a CO2 power inflator and is mostly for emergency use like the old MaeWest units. The lower chamber is for bouyancy control and flotation. It is centered under the stomack/lower chest in actual use and has a conventional power inflator. The entire unit is very streamlined and effective. If, however, one is overweighted such that they have to put a bunch of air into the BC it does become like trying to balance on top of a beach ball--lol. This is a very rugged unit and has also made hundreds of dives in OW, caves, wrecks, and rigs.
You know, you don't really need a BC at all and then there is no worry of damage.N