Back Roll Entry Head Injury

[dumpsterDiver]

The way i like to do it. the boat is moving. the capt asks the divers if they are ready. Then a few moments later he should ask if anyone is not ready. Everyone needs to have mask on and everything ready.

Then the capt pulls to the drop location, puts the engine(s) in neutral and says dive, dive dive. The boat is still moving slowly forward.

On each side of the boat, the rear most diver rolls, then the next forward one and then the next most forward one. If the boat is moving forward (slowly), it is impossible for one diver to land on another.. if they go in the proper sequence,

This video shows the WRONG sequence, but the speed of the boat and time delay prevented an accident. It also shows that after the roll, the diver does not screw around giving signals etc... You straighten out after hitting the water and then immediately kick downward toward safety (away from the boat).


Found a Gun! - YouTube

[video=youtube_share;jqflYBET5GQ]http://youtu.be/jqflYBET5GQ[/video]

 

[kwinter]

Kudos for telling your story and recognizing your part in this. I believe every individual is responsible for his actions. It should be every diver's responsibility to make sure the way is clear before rolling out of a boat. If I can't see behind me, I ask someone on the boat. Yes, the captain or mate should make sure. But if they neglect to do their job on their own, I will make sure they do it for me. I think the guy who landed on you probably learned an important lesson and will be more careful. And you learned not only about improper headgear, but also the importance of paying attention after you hit the water.


iPhone. iTypo. iApologize.

 

[ktomlinson]

It's kind of you not to place the most blame on the other diver, but it probably is mainly his fault. You have to look before you giant stride, or back roll. Maybe you could have seen it coming if you weren't distracted with your gear, or the captain could have stopped it somehow, either way I still think it's on the guy that landed on your head.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

It's kind of you not to place the most blame on the other diver, but it probably is mainly his fault. You have to look before you giant stride, or back roll. Maybe you could have seen it coming if you weren't distracted with your gear, or the captain could have stopped it somehow, either way I still think it's on the guy that landed on your head.

Well that does a lot of good, the guy who lands on your head... : "it is on him" LOL...

You can NOT effectively look behind yourself before a back roll because somebody can come from underneath the boat and ascend under you. There is no fool-proof way to prevent landing on someone when you are doing a back roll... unless of course you do it the way I describe,

 

[DandyDon]

It's kind of you not to place the most blame on the other diver, but it probably is mainly his fault. You have to look before you giant stride, or back roll. Maybe you could have seen it coming if you weren't distracted with your gear, or the captain could have stopped it somehow, either way I still think it's on the guy that landed on your head.

Have you done backrolls off of pangas much? You really need to count on the skipper's instructions and go when told, and you can't much look behind you. The boats are so small that they bring your kit to you from the back, you all kit up shoulder to shoulder, and there's really not time or room for rear views.

(1) Maybe the second diver rolled before he was told, maybe even in spite of the skipper telling him to wait, or at least before "go"?

(2) Maybe the skipper didn't do his job right, or didn't see the diver in the water coming back to the boat by a surprise wave move?

It's hard to say from this report from the diver in the water what happened onboard, but to be safest - get away from the boat as soon as you enter, and stay away.

On bigger boats, I do look before a giant stride - but if I'm told to go, I go when told - unless I see a problem. Either size, I don't get under divers climbing ladders either.

 

[ktomlinson]

Have you done backrolls off of pangas much? You really need to count on the skipper's instructions and go when told, and you can't much look behind you. The boats are so small that they bring your kit to you from the back, you all kit up shoulder to shoulder, and there's really not time or room for rear views.

It wasn't clear to me that this was a panga, that speculation came on later in the thread. I have dove from all sorts of boats, and can tell you that you can always look at the water before you back roll. I guess someone could swim from under the boat, but that's not what OP said happened either..

 

[boulderjohn]

Dumpster Diver describes a system for safe back roll entries. It is not a system I have ever seen used in Cozumel, but the point is that it is a system designed to prevent problems of this sort. There are other systems, each of which should get people in the water safely and effectively. It is up to the boat crew to design and coordinate the system.

A crew member tells the divers when to go, and if someone rolls on his or her own without orders, then the fault lies with that person for screwing up the system. But if that person back rolls on command and lands on a diver below, the fault lies squarely with the crew member who gave the command. Even if the first diver made an error and was not where he was supposed to be, it is the duty of the crew member to see that and adjust for the situation.

 

[diver 85]

The way i like to do it. the boat is moving. the capt asks the divers if they are ready. Then a few moments later he should ask if anyone is not ready. Everyone needs to have mask on and everything ready.

Then the capt pulls to the drop location, puts the engine(s) in neutral and says dive, dive dive. The boat is still moving slowly forward.

On each side of the boat, the rear most diver rolls, then the next forward one and then the next most forward one. If the boat is moving forward (slowly), it is impossible for one diver to land on another.. if they go in the proper sequence,

This video shows the WRONG sequence, but the speed of the boat and time delay prevented an accident. It also shows that after the roll, the diver does not screw around giving signals etc... You straighten out after hitting the water and then immediately kick downward toward safety (away from the boat).


Found a Gun! - YouTube

[video=youtube_share;jqflYBET5GQ]http://youtu.be/jqflYBET5GQ[/video]

That sucka needs to quit shooting minnows.......Here's what we take......

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Dumpster Diver describes a system for safe back roll entries. It is not a system I have ever seen used in Cozumel, but the point is that it is a system designed to prevent problems of this sort. There are other systems, each of which should get people in the water safely and effectively. It is up to the boat crew to design and coordinate the system.

A crew member tells the divers when to go, and if someone rolls on his or her own without orders, then the fault lies with that person for screwing up the system. But if that person back rolls on command and lands on a diver below, the fault lies squarely with the crew member who gave the command. Even if the first diver made an error and was not where he was supposed to be, it is the duty of the crew member to see that and adjust for the situation.

The system you describe puts your safety in other people's hands. Do you want to be in control of your safety or not? Do you want to be subject to a lethal crushing head injury because some member of the crew is unclear or some idiot does not follow directions? Do you give a crap over whose fault it is when you have someone bash you in the head with a tank from 4 feet up?

IF you follow the rule of going in the proper order AND you refuse to roll if you see someone roll in before you who is forward of you, then YOU are in control of your own safety. The diver who rolls in could also be killed if they "land wrong" on another divers tank valve, for example.

I personally want to be in control and not subject myself to injury because other people mis-communicate for a few moments.

---------- Post added June 13th, 2014 at 09:30 PM ----------

That sucka needs to quit shooting minnows.......Here's what we take......

LOL.. You call that a snapper??? Last week...

[video=youtube;Ngktwzp4DTo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ngktwzp4DTo&list=UU1utDku8vJRJYgBZImLyLJQ& feature=share&index=2[/video]

 

[DandyDon]

It wasn't clear to me that this was a panga, that speculation came on later in the thread. I have dove from all sorts of boats, and can tell you that you can always look at the water before you back roll. I guess someone could swim from under the boat, but that's not what OP said happened either..

Ok, gotcha. I have backrolled off of bigger boats, but I'm thinking this boat was a panga - typical in Cozumel waters. It's all I can do to get my fat butt on the edge with my pony and camera ready to roll without falling in early - another possibility in the rough waves they had that day.