Bad news, then good news about DAN equipment insurance

[BadeInBulverde]

Jay called me this afternoon and basically gave me the unhappy news that not only would the claim be denied ... but there would be no refund in the offing ...

He was polite, I believe genuinely felt bad that I had suffered a loss that wouldn't be paid.

He indicated that although he did not have first hand confirmation --- he had indications that DEPP would have paid the claim ... they may have justafiably asked for supporting documentation like affadavits of persons on the boat (good luck getting that on a 6pack boat in Coz) .. but perhaps would have in fact honored the claim ... I make no representation here of that fact but you should consider checking into it yourself ... for sure DAN Equip Insurance will not ...

A couple of interesting points in our lengthy conversation ... apparently he had had a number of calls from concerned divers asking about this type of situation which were no doubt prompted by my posting here so I appreciate the support of the diving community in that regard.

When we got down to 'exactly what is covered if not this sort of loss? ... ' ... it is
1 - DAMAGE to equipment, 2 - LOSS BY AIRLINE (which fasinates me 'cause apparently it's ok if the airline loses it but not me .... ) 3-THEFT if a police report is filed 4-FLOODING .... and bubba ... that is it ... no ifs ands or buts ... .

Apparently even before they added line in their restrictions about loss while in control ... this would not have been covered because it would be considered a "unexplained loss or loss due to mysterious circumstance ... " Wasn't much of a mystery to be but I guess that is neither here nor there ...

Since I get no refund I will not be able to move my coverage to D.E.P.P until the end of the policy term ... I WILL MOVE TO DEPP AT THAT TIME ... they are certainly cheaper and frankly I don't see this DAN Equip Insurance as all that interested in actually making good on even small claims ... I am sure there are many happy DAN equip insurance users and I am happy for them ... I do not count myself in their numbers.

Bottom line ... IF YOU THOUGHT YOU WERE COVERED FOR "LOSS" OF EQUIPMENT ... be darn sure you know what "LOSS" really means ... it DOESN'T mean you 'LOST" it ....

By the way ... the insurance underwriter for this is Fireman's Fund

Sadder but wiser ... and not at all happy about it ...
Bade

 

[cdiver2]

Jay called me this afternoon and basically gave me the unhappy news that not only would the claim be denied ... but there would be no refund in the offing ...

He was polite, I believe genuinely felt bad that I had suffered a loss that wouldn't be paid.

He indicated that although he did not have first hand confirmation --- he had indications that DEPP would have paid the claim ... they may have justafiably asked for supporting documentation like affadavits of persons on the boat (good luck getting that on a 6pack boat in Coz) .. but perhaps would have in fact honored the claim ... I make no representation here of that fact but you should consider checking into it yourself ... for sure DAN Equip Insurance will not ...

A couple of interesting points in our lengthy conversation ... apparently he had had a number of calls from concerned divers asking about this type of situation which were no doubt prompted by my posting here so I appreciate the support of the diving community in that regard.

When we got down to 'exactly what is covered if not this sort of loss? ... ' ... it is
1 - DAMAGE to equipment, 2 - LOSS BY AIRLINE (which fasinates me 'cause apparently it's ok if the airline loses it but not me .... ) 3-THEFT if a police report is filed 4-FLOODING .... and bubba ... that is it ... no ifs ands or buts ... .

Apparently even before they added line in their restrictions about loss while in control ... this would not have been covered because it would be considered a "unexplained loss or loss due to mysterious circumstance ... " Wasn't much of a mystery to be but I guess that is neither here nor there ...

Since I get no refund I will not be able to move my coverage to D.E.P.P until the end of the policy term ... I WILL MOVE TO DEPP AT THAT TIME ... they are certainly cheaper and frankly I don't see this DAN Equip Insurance as all that interested in actually making good on even small claims ... I am sure there are many happy DAN equip insurance users and I am happy for them ... I do not count myself in their numbers.

Bottom line ... IF YOU THOUGHT YOU WERE COVERED FOR "LOSS" OF EQUIPMENT ... be darn sure you know what "LOSS" really means ... it DOESN'T mean you 'LOST" it ....

By the way ... the insurance underwriter for this is Fireman's Fund

Sadder but wiser ... and not at all happy about it ...
Bade

About your loss and I will certainly look at my options when it comes time for renewal

 

[Michael Schlink]

I have this same insurance and now I'm concerned. I was under the impression that they covered loss as "falling off the **%# boat". Oh well my primary reason for the insurance is for flooding of camera gear and loss by airline so I'll be calling them and re-reading my policy-thanks for the heads up

 

[pt40fathoms]

My policy is up for renewal next month. You can be darn sure I will be reading all the fine print this time around. But from what has been revealed here, I doubt very much that the equipment insurance portion of my DAN insurance will be considered for renewal. I will also write them to let them know just why I am not renewing that portion of the policy.

Up till now, I have heard nothing but praise for DAN and how they handle divers who need their service. However the service was always of a medical nature. It seems that the extra equipment insurance is just not up to a standard I would expect from an agency with such a good reputation and standing in the dive community.

 

[cdiver2]

I was just as upset at the news as everyone else but I think we should be realistic, our options are not that good its not like the insurance companys are fighting to get our business. In fact we would be lucky to get more than a couple of companys to insure us.
I will be staying with DAN anything is better than nothing.

 

[Albion]

1 - DAMAGE to equipment, 2 - LOSS BY AIRLINE (which fasinates me 'cause apparently it's ok if the airline loses it but not me .... ) 3-THEFT if a police report is filed 4-FLOODING .... and bubba ... that is it ... no ifs ands or buts ... .
Bade

you mentioned in the oriignal post that it was attached to your BC so it is not strictly a loss? it was damaged which resulted in further damage and probable flooding

Sounds like it is a case of best not to be honest when filing a claim these days, or maybe take to throwing your camera at the boat crew at least if they drop it you can claim for damage

 

[saf_25]

Jay called me this afternoon and basically gave me the unhappy news that not only would the claim be denied ... but there would be no refund in the offing ...

He was polite, I believe genuinely felt bad that I had suffered a loss that wouldn't be paid.

He indicated that although he did not have first hand confirmation --- he had indications that DEPP would have paid the claim ... they may have justafiably asked for supporting documentation like affadavits of persons on the boat (good luck getting that on a 6pack boat in Coz) .. but perhaps would have in fact honored the claim ... I make no representation here of that fact but you should consider checking into it yourself ... for sure DAN Equip Insurance will not ...

A couple of interesting points in our lengthy conversation ... apparently he had had a number of calls from concerned divers asking about this type of situation which were no doubt prompted by my posting here so I appreciate the support of the diving community in that regard.

When we got down to 'exactly what is covered if not this sort of loss? ... ' ... it is
1 - DAMAGE to equipment, 2 - LOSS BY AIRLINE (which fasinates me 'cause apparently it's ok if the airline loses it but not me .... ) 3-THEFT if a police report is filed 4-FLOODING .... and bubba ... that is it ... no ifs ands or buts ... .

Apparently even before they added line in their restrictions about loss while in control ... this would not have been covered because it would be considered a "unexplained loss or loss due to mysterious circumstance ... " Wasn't much of a mystery to be but I guess that is neither here nor there ...

Since I get no refund I will not be able to move my coverage to D.E.P.P until the end of the policy term ... I WILL MOVE TO DEPP AT THAT TIME ... they are certainly cheaper and frankly I don't see this DAN Equip Insurance as all that interested in actually making good on even small claims ... I am sure there are many happy DAN equip insurance users and I am happy for them ... I do not count myself in their numbers.

Bottom line ... IF YOU THOUGHT YOU WERE COVERED FOR "LOSS" OF EQUIPMENT ... be darn sure you know what "LOSS" really means ... it DOESN'T mean you 'LOST" it ....

By the way ... the insurance underwriter for this is Fireman's Fund

Sadder but wiser ... and not at all happy about it ...
Bade

I am so sorry for your loss and this situation, but am extremely grateful you posted it. I recently purchased a digital camera and housing, but want to wait until I get it insured before I take it in the water. I signed on to my computer yesterday specifically to sign up for the DAN equipment insurance, but before I did I checked SCUBABOARD and ran across this thread. It made me think enough to wait a wihle before signing up. I had been debating between DEPP and DAN anyway, was going to go with DAN because of the other good causes they support, but since this thread was posted, I am definitely going to go with DEPP.
Again, I am so sorry that you had to experience this, but at least know that some good came of it in terms of other people being better informed.
Thanks!

 

[cdiver2]

I am so sorry for your loss and this situation, but am extremely grateful you posted it. I recently purchased a digital camera and housing, but want to wait until I get it insured before I take it in the water. I signed on to my computer yesterday specifically to sign up for the DAN equipment insurance, but before I did I checked SCUBABOARD and ran across this thread. It made me think enough to wait a wihle before signing up. I had been debating between DEPP and DAN anyway, was going to go with DAN because of the other good causes they support, but since this thread was posted, I am definitely going to go with DEPP.
Again, I am so sorry that you had to experience this, but at least know that some good came of it in terms of other people being better informed.
Thanks!

The thread in its entirety. Someone else looked at DEPP and posted that they had the same clause * MYSTERIOUS DISAPPEARANCE * . Go with whatever company you wish but dont be supprised when they wont cover because you lost it whilest diving.

 

[DandyDon]

I was just as upset at the news as everyone else but I think we should be realistic, our options are not that good its not like the insurance companys are fighting to get our business. In fact we would be lucky to get more than a couple of companys to insure us.
I will be staying with DAN anything is better than nothing.

Well said. And think about this: DAN pays money on claims, rather than replacing the lost item with a similar, maybe refurbished item like DEPP does, right? Based on that, if they paid claims for "Items dropped by diver and not recovered," the premiums would sky-rocket! Many a diver would think, "I don't like this camera. I pay my premiums. I think that I'll 'lose' it, get my money, and buy the new model." :54:

I know, you wouldn't do that. If you have any way to seperate the honest from the dishonest on insurance applications, that would be allowed by Fed Regs, you could do well starting a new company.

don

 

[BadeInBulverde]

Again .. I posted on Rodale's as well but the response was strong here as well ...

I was contacted this morning again by the DAN Insurance agent Jay Haldeman with good news ... since the previous thread had gotten so much attention on this board and others I felt like it was only fair to tell the good besides the bad ...

According to Jay Firemans Fund (the DAN equipment insurance carrier) had further reviewed my particular case and determined that the actual date I renewed my insurance preceeded the date they released to the website the updated restrictions on "loss" exclusions and thus the 'right thing to do' was to honor my claim.

Jay made it clear that the exclusion stands and they will attempt to further clarify the meaning of 'physical loss' but since the actual text of the policy I had received did not show the section 'D' about loss while in my control they would in this case pay the claim.

I have to say a couple of things here ...

1 - Jay Haldeman was professional and polite in all of our telephone exchanges - he clearly understood my position and I believe was key in getting this claim further reviewed by Fireman's Fund on my behalf.

2 - I believe that my posting to this board and others on the internet -- and the general support of the responders was absolutely key in getting this good outcome. For that -- I thank you all ... apparently several individuals called DAN Equip Insurance directly and asked questions about their own policies or policies they were considering buying and this response at least made the insurance company aware that there is a fairly tight knit community of divers out there that are fairly insistent that they be treated fairly. Again thank those of you that responded on my behalf ... or even just voiced sympathy ... it was good to know I was not alone in my ignorance of the way the insurance industry interpreted 'loss'.

Finally ... I believe DAN did the 'right thing' here and I am grateful for that ... I still have serious reservations about the 'value' of the equipment insurance now that I better understand what is and what isn't covered ... I'll just have to ponder that when my renewal date comes around ...