Bad news, then good news about DAN equipment insurance

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The problem is that a firm's PAST reputation can be rapidly overturned by their present actions.

This was a pretty egregious act of slime, IMHO. If its my camera that doesn't get paid for I'd be upset. If its my $20,000 worth of chamber treatments, I'd be quite a bit more than just "upset."
 
Genesis:
I wouldn't buy their equipment insurance for one cent after this fiasco, and I'm not entirely certain I want their DIVE insurance any more either.

If they tried this garbage while I was sitting in a chamber, I might not be able to post here and on Rodales.....

Add another to the Genesis hit list. Just for the record, what colour is your cape? 8)

JohnF
 
I am pretty sure that the equipment insurance DAN is offering is just a link to Marsh & Dunn (broker/agent) I don't think DAN has much to do with it, but to offer it through their website. I spoke with one of the agents a while back and he warned me that the claims process was going to change because of the high number of false claims. People would pay the premium and then file a claim . I don't know how anyone could offer insurance to someone that covers dropping your camera off the boat? I have the insurance and I purchased it because of the low baggage liability that airlines offer. Also they "claim" (no pun intended) to cover flooded camera gear. I hope I never need it, and now I'm concerned if they are going to be there when I need them.
 
Michael Schlink:
I am pretty sure that the equipment insurance DAN is offering is just a link to Marsh & Dunn (broker/agent) I don't think DAN has much to do with it, but to offer it through their website. I spoke with one of the agents a while back and he warned me that the claims process was going to change because of the high number of false claims. People would pay the premium and then file a claim . I don't know how anyone could offer insurance to someone that covers dropping your camera off the boat? I have the insurance and I purchased it because of the low baggage liability that airlines offer. Also they "claim" (no pun intended) to cover flooded camera gear. I hope I never need it, and now I'm concerned if they are going to be there when I need them.

I flooded a strobe to the tune of $200 plus in Grand Cayman a couple of years ago. It never occurred to me that it was insured. I guess it's too late to claim it now. I should have read the fine print. Silly me.

JohnF
 
Since I started this thread I wanted to make one point absolutely clear ...

DAN's 'diver accident' insurance is not related to the DAN 'equipment' insurance with which I had a problem ... in no fashion did I intend to warn anyone off of DAN's "diver accident" insurance ... I absolutely believe that "accident" insurance ought to be considered mandatory for any serious diver (even not so serious) ... one chamber ride is all it would take to seriously damage the pocket book of the un-insured. Hopefully no one is confusing the two or thinking I have a problem with DAN's "diver accident" insurance ... that is most certainly NOT the case.

For clarification - DAN's "equipment insurance" is written by Fireman's Fund.
 
Genesis:
The problem is that a firm's PAST reputation can be rapidly overturned by their present actions.

This was a pretty egregious act of slime, IMHO. If its my camera that doesn't get paid for I'd be upset. If its my $20,000 worth of chamber treatments, I'd be quite a bit more than just "upset."

Now this kind of blatant attempt of a drive by smear really pisses me off. What part of the simple fact that DAN diver insurance is separate and apart from the equipment insurance that is underwritten by a third party do you not understand. Keep the innuendo and disassociated hypothetical situations that result in false conclusions out of this discussion.
 
pt40fathoms:
Now this kind of blatant attempt of a drive by smear really pisses me off. What part of the simple fact that DAN diver insurance is separate and apart from the equipment insurance that is underwritten by a third party do you not understand. Keep the innuendo and disassociated hypothetical situations that result in false conclusions out of this discussion.

You put your name on it and sell it, its yours.

DAN's "dive insurance" isn't underwritten by DAN itself either. Indeed, that is what the entire brouhaha with alleged inside dealing that forced the good Doctor out was about - an alleged attempt by him (and his lawyer) to take over the company that actually underwrote the insurance.

As such, these two issues are very much intertwined. DAN has no actual control over either carrier and no actual ownership interest in either. Your membership fee goes to them, but not your dive insurance payment.

Thus, this isn't a "drive by slam"; its a spot-on assessment that DAN has been selling this stuff and tried to slime a customer when they attempted to actually hold them to the terms of the policy they wrote.

What they sell as the terms now is simply not the issue. You buy it, read the policy, and if its ok with you, spend the money.

The problem is that they attempted to retroactively change the policy terms after payment was made and the policy was in force.

That they didn't stand up for the policyholder that they sold the policy to until that person went public with it here and on Rodale's is troubling, because if such a pattern was to repeat itself in the dive insurance segment, there could be real trouble rather than just a lost camera.

Paying the claim now doesn't resolve the underlying issue. Only some kind of formal commitment from DAN to address the systemic issue raised - that of attempting to redefine a policy once issued - does that.
 
Have you any evidence to back up your claim that DAN has denied an insurance claim for medical treatment of a diver, who has the proper level of insurance for the dive that was being conducted when the injury was made. This is what you are claiming in your statement, that they will “slime” the individual and in fact have done so. I would be very interested to read the proof of this very serious allegation.
 
pt40fathoms:
Have you any evidence to back up your claim that DAN has denied an insurance claim for medical treatment of a diver, who has the proper level of insurance for the dive that was being conducted when the injury was made. This is what you are claiming in your statement, that they will “slime” the individual and in fact have done so. I would be very interested to read the proof of this very serious allegation.

I am making no such statement and if you're unable to parse the language that's not my issue to resolve. It is yours.

I am making the statement that all indications are that DAN attempted to deny a legitimate equipment insurance claim that appears, under the terms of the policy they sold under their name, was in fact covered at the time of the loss, and only changed their mind and actually conformed to what they sold this customer when public pressure FORCED them to do so.

I have no information that they have done such a thing for any medical claim.

However, I remain troubled that they attempted it for any insurance that they sold.

Your complaint is like saying that if I buy a car and home policy from someone company, and they try to wrongly deny a claim on my car policy, that I should have no concern that a future claim on my homeowners policy will not also be wrongly denied.

That's pure horsehockey.

The issue is one of credibility. Either the company stands on the wording of their policy and the terms of their contracts, and upholds their obligations, or they do not.

There is no middle ground on things like this.

If I offer you three contracts, you bind all three with me, and then I reneg on one of them, you are quite justified in being concerned about whether I will attempt to reneg on the other two!

I've already established my intent; for you to rely on the performance of the other two outstanding contracts would be somewhat north of insane, in my opinion.

Your approach to this is precisely WHY companies do this kind of thing. They believe, and it appears justifyably so, that they will not be held to account across their entire product and service line on the basis of their actions in any specific instance.

This sort of nonsense will only stop when those companies that do something like this are viewed as willing to do it in all future instances, until and unless they take some kind of positive, public action to address the root of the issue.

It is only the force of the marketplace - the risk of their entire customer base evaporating - that makes such a decision unpalatable.

You want to see this kind of thing go away, then you must consider any attempt to abrogate a legitimate contract to reflect on the organization as a whole, and every other contract they have bound, until proven otherwise.
 
Genesis:
You put your name on it and sell it, its yours.

DAN's "dive insurance" isn't underwritten by DAN itself either. Indeed, that is what the entire brouhaha with alleged inside dealing that forced the good Doctor out was about - an alleged attempt by him (and his lawyer) to take over the company that actually underwrote the insurance.

As such, these two issues are very much intertwined. DAN has no actual control over either carrier and no actual ownership interest in either. Your membership fee goes to them, but not your dive insurance payment.

Thus, this isn't a "drive by slam"; its a spot-on assessment that DAN has been selling this stuff and tried to slime a customer when they attempted to actually hold them to the terms of the policy they wrote.

What they sell as the terms now is simply not the issue. You buy it, read the policy, and if its ok with you, spend the money.

The problem is that they attempted to retroactively change the policy terms after payment was made and the policy was in force.

That they didn't stand up for the policyholder that they sold the policy to until that person went public with it here and on Rodale's is troubling, because if such a pattern was to repeat itself in the dive insurance segment, there could be real trouble rather than just a lost camera.

Paying the claim now doesn't resolve the underlying issue. Only some kind of formal commitment from DAN to address the systemic issue raised - that of attempting to redefine a policy once issued - does that.

You know, Karl, the range of your accusations is bordering on paranoia, if not tipped right over the edge, too sweeping to be credible. Just for the record, do you believe there is any company or individual on the supply side of diving who's not "sliming" us?

JohnF
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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