Bahamas cave diving

[boulderjohn]

There's some stuff on Andros as well

I dived Guardian Cave in Andros, but there was a problem with that which may present itself in other caves there. The cave was explored by--guess who?--Brian Kakuk, and if you want to do it as a serious dive, you have to pay for Brian to come in from Abaco and guide it. In order for me to do it, I had to use a guide from Small Hope Bay, and that guide was only allowed to used single tanks (with H-valves). We had a very specific limit to distance. Once we reached a specified location, we had to turn back, regardless of gas. It had nothing to do with my certification--it was all about the guide's level of training.

The cave itself was very different from most caves. It began its life as a fracture in the rock structure caused by earth movement. That makes its inner structure very different from what most people are used to. The guideline going in had fine sediment and algae hanging off of it, a sign that no one had passed by in a long time.

 

[tursiops]

Brian goes to Andros once or twice a year....he is there right now, with his wife, on vacation!
This is another bucket-list trip, and perfect for taking advanced trimix with him.
You just email him and set it up....quite straightforward and worthwhile, but not cheap.

 

[sebach]

So, from what you are telling us, most Bahamian interresting caves, are, in practice, privates caves of Mr Kakuk. :shocked2:

 

[boulderjohn]

So, from what you are telling us, most Bahamian interresting caves, are, in practice, privates caves of Mr Kakuk. :shocked2:

It is pretty close to that in my observation, although it is by default more than choice. No one else is doing it. If he were to quit, that would pretty much end the diving in those caves.

What amazes me is that I don't think he's very busy. Those caves are spectacular, they are not far away, and only a relative handful of people seem interested in them. Look at the participation in this thread over more than a month of people posting as an indicator.

 

[moody s]

Those caves are spectacular, they are not far away, and only a relative handful of people seem interested in them. Look at the participation in this thread over more than a month of people posting as an indicator.

For many it's not a lack of interest, but cost. the guiding fee alone is $350 a day! Then you add accommodation, food, and flights. So every time I think about doing a week cave diving in Bahamas I end up changing my mind because I can spend a month or more cave diving in Mexico for the same amount of money.

 

[rddvet]

For many it's not a lack of interest, but cost. the guiding fee alone is $350 a day! Then you add accommodation, food, and flights. So every time I think about doing a week cave diving in Bahamas I end up changing my mind because I can spend a month or more cave diving in Mexico for the same amount of money.

Ding ding ding. That's the real answer. With the cost of guiding it's just friggin expensive. We have wanted to go for a while, but everytime we want to we look at how much less we could go dive in mexico for (or some other nondiving vacation). Hell, last time because of travel points and special deals we could go to France and dive the caves there for 10 days for the same price or cheaper than the Bahamas.

I'd really like to fly myself over from here in Fl to dive with him. It's not a hard flight. When you add his fees on top, it's not doable. I don't slight him because look at what he's had to do to get access. It's just not budget-smart.

 

[kensuf]

I'm just curious, how much do you feel your time is worth? Now factor in taking risks by going cave diving with unknown quantities. Then throw in insurance costs. And finally direct expenses, like fuel and oxygen.

I am not so sure that $35-40 an hour for exclusive attention in an exotic locale is out of line.

 

[moody s]

I'm just curious, how much do you feel your time is worth? Now factor in taking risks by going cave diving with unknown quantities. Then throw in insurance costs. And finally direct expenses, like fuel and oxygen.

I am not so sure that $35-40 an hour for exclusive attention in an exotic locale is out of line.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not necessarily saying that he's overcharging, I'm saying I can't afford it. The fact that it's mandatory, it leaves me no other choice where as in other places I can choose to dive without a guide, or I can mix in some guided diving with some unguided diving. My comments where directed at someone saying they can't believe there is such a lack of interest in the caves, and my opinion is that there are plenty of people who are interested but just can't justify the cost. Pretty much the same reason I drive a Toyota instead of a Porsche.

 

[boulderjohn]

I'm just curious, how much do you feel your time is worth? Now factor in taking risks by going cave diving with unknown quantities. Then throw in insurance costs. And finally direct expenses, like fuel and oxygen.

I am not so sure that $35-40 an hour for exclusive attention in an exotic locale is out of line.

This is a common problem with technical diving in situations like this. I faced that problem when I went there, and I decided it was worth it. My children are grown and prospering in their lives, so I can spend my money to a reasonable extent without guilt. Others are in a different situation and need to make a different decision.

Now think about things from Brian's point of view. If he were doing 2-3 divers per day 6 days a week, he would be sitting pretty. He's not. He has stretches with no customers. You can argue that if he charged less he would have more, but that is a tough decision. His overhead costs are high. The diving fees include your gas, which is nitrox for the dives and oxygen for decompression. Any idea how easy it is for him to get oxygen tanks there? Not only that, if you go there, you will see that the cost of living is very high. Things cost much more than they do in nearby Florida.

I faced the same problem doing deep technical dives in Cozumel. Not many shops offer that option. Under local law, a guide is required, so you have to pay for a technical guide. You have to pay for the technical guide's gas, and helium is quite expensive there. If you are the only one doing the dive, it makes $350 a day look like a real bargain. It can come to $800 a day in Cozumel. I'm serious. So the solution is to do everything you can to become part of a group. If 6 people are paying the cost of the technical guide and his gas, things start to move toward reasonable.

Now, I have no idea if Brian has group rates, and I am certainly not going to speak for him on this issue. If you really want to explore those caves--and every cave diver should--why not get together with some freinds and see if group discounts are available?

 

[rddvet]

This is a common problem with technical diving in situations like this. I faced that problem when I went there, and I decided it was worth it. My children are grown and prospering in their lives, so I can spend my money to a reasonable extent without guilt. Others are in a different situation and need to make a different decision.

Now think about things from Brian's point of view. If he were doing 2-3 divers per day 6 days a week, he would be sitting pretty. He's not. He has stretches with no customers. You can argue that if he charged less he would have more, but that is a tough decision. His overhead costs are high. The diving fees include your gas, which is nitrox for the dives and oxygen for decompression. Any idea how easy it is for him to get oxygen tanks there? Not only that, if you go there, you will see that the cost of living is very high. Things cost much more than they do in nearby Florida.

I faced the same problem doing deep technical dives in Cozumel. Not many shops offer that option. Under local law, a guide is required, so you have to pay for a technical guide. You have to pay for the technical guide's gas, and helium is quite expensive there. If you are the only one doing the dive, it makes $350 a day look like a real bargain. It can come to $800 a day in Cozumel. I'm serious. So the solution is to do everything you can to become part of a group. If 6 people are paying the cost of the technical guide and his gas, things start to move toward reasonable.

Now, I have no idea if Brian has group rates, and I am certainly not going to speak for him on this issue. If you really want to explore those caves--and every cave diver should--why not get together with some freinds and see if group discounts are available?

I think moody and I are saying pretty much the same thing. I don't slight Bryan in the least. He's done the working in exploring and conserving the caves, and he's set up an infrastructure to be able to dive there. I don't think he's overcharging in the least. My situation isnt't monetary but time. I have a tough schedule to get vacation time from. When I do get time I want to maximize my time. To dive the Bahamas I have to hire a guide and follow their schedule and pay their fees. As moody said we enjoy being able to maximize our time and dive with or without a guide as we see fit, and like to get maximum amount of vacation time per $.

I was also responding to the question as to why this thread has so few responses. It's simply a matter of cost/time:benefit ratio. I absolutely want to go, but a place like France or Mexico ends up being a better choice for my lifestyle.