Bangsticks, guns, other?

[texdiveguy]

Have some questions about underwater wepons, other then spearguns and knifes. I have pretty much just started my diving carrer. I was 15 when I started and am now 16 and qualified up to rescue. I do alot of hunting and love to eat what I shoot, and living in colorado I have an abundence of things to eat. My qustions were
1. What are bangsticks? I have heard my dad talking about carrying them in vietnam where he worked as an underwater demo man. He is not diving anymore due to ear problems when my family got certified for open water.
2.What about guns? I would image that it would be rather unpracticul because the salt would ruin a gun if it wasn't striped down and dryed, but then something like Navy seals come to mind and knowing that they carry there wepons through water so on I don't know. Would problems arise with pressuere as you go deeper? Or as you return to the surface. Acuracy underwater?
I know I may raise some eyebrows with these qusetsions, like people wondering why you would want a gun underwater. The way I see it, you don't go hiking around the woods with out some kind of protection. Or you don't go swiming around with out protection.
Thanks guys

I to think good judgement is the only true protection you need in most rec. diving,,,,a dive knife is a great tool to carry. **There have been situations were trained safety divers acting as support for dive groups doing scientific dives have been eqpt. with bangsticks to use in protection in some HEAVY shark pop. waters,,,,only as a last resort to protect the dives.

 

[Tom Winters]

I knew a guy who used to solo spearfish a lot on the Penguin Banks between Oahu and Molokai. He shot something big and while he was dragging it up from 180 feet, he got buzzed by a large tiger shark. He finally had to bangstick it with a .357 head, and he got a good head shot on it.
Personally, that's way too close for comfort for me.
I have both .357 magnum and .223 bangsticks. One of these days, I'm going to take some big plastic dye-filled bottles down to depth and do a comparison on what does what.
I don't hunt on scuba, but sometimes I have to dive with people who do, so the bangstick is the tool of absolute last resort - at 200', 911 doesn't work.

 

[Bob3]

I have both .357 magnum and .223 bangsticks. One of these days, I'm going to take some big plastic dye-filled bottles down to depth and do a comparison on what does what.

I can fill you in on that one; a .357 is a tad weaker than the .223.
The .44 mag will be very close to a .223 in thumping power.
.444 Marlin comes in on top, you can stone 1500 lbs of fish with a good shot.
Rifle powder is just a tiny bit slower burning & you may sometimes see a little unburned powder left over.

 

[Crowell]

I can fill you in on that one; a .357 is a tad weaker than the .223.
The .44 mag will be very close to a .223 in thumping power.
.444 Marlin comes in on top, you can stone 1500 lbs of fish with a good shot.
Rifle powder is just a tiny bit slower burning & you may sometimes see a little unburned powder left over.

How about that new S&W .500 Mag round they have out now? A 50 cal hole's gonna do some major trauma, but I'm not sure how hydrostatic shock works underwater vs. on the surface? I'd assume it should be fairly similar. I'd imagine the .444 would be good too, but the newer stuff like Smith's new 500 or Ruger's .480 should pack quite a whallop and get a full-burn on their charge.

 

[DavidPT40]

This may be an urban legend, but the owner of my dive shop and a few other guys were talking- Someone used a 12 gauge powerhead to kill a large snapper in the carribean. Well, he killed the snapper, and blew both of his ear drums out at the same time.

 

[Crowell]

Concussion under-water is a terrible thing.

 

[Ishie]

My mother mentioned a dive she did in the Farallons, I think as part of the Cordell Bank Expedition. She was jaws paranoid and carried a bangstick. Four funny things.
1. For something you can't carry loaded, by the time you see the shark, he's probably not going to give you time to load your gun. Of course, that's presuming you ever see the shark.
2. Loading your gun becomes impossible when your hands are very cold.
3. When you are paranoid and in the Farallons, a sea lion looks like a 25 foot great white shark. Good thing she wasn't able to get her gun loaded.
4. If you need to use the bang stick, you are supposed to make sure your buddies are behind you. If you needed a bang stick that badly and are able to touch the shark with it, since that's how you used it, chances are your buddy's eardrums are the least of your concerns.

Have bang sticks changed much since the 70s? I'd imagine so...

 

[htn123]

Have some questions about underwater wepons, other then spearguns and knifes. ........

Coyotekiller,
Yep, it would be nice to dive in the water without any predators or anything bigger than us, but guess what? We are land-animals, underwater is another diff environment. We are guests under water, and as any properties, there are "landlords", "the man in grey suits" , will come and give you a visit sometime.
I do lots of spearfishing and on one occasion, my brother and I got tagged team by 2 bull sharks, 10 feet long each. They heard the sound of the speargun went off, showed up and demanded free lunch!!! :11:.
Read my post at spearboard.com http://www.spearboard.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9858.
I did not have power head then. I DO carry 2 power heads now, .223. Don't want to travel without them any more .
So if you want, here an inexpensive place to buy some protection:
http://www.spearfishing.cc/Personal Protectin Device.htm
It is very easy to put the power head on and off. I only put it on once I see the man in grey suit shows up. So there is very low chance that you accidently shoot someone. That being said, ofcourse just like anything, be careful when it come to bullets and such.

 

[htn123]

1. For something you can't carry loaded, by the time you see the shark, he's probably not going to give you time to load your gun. Of course, that's presuming you ever see the shark.
2. Loading your gun becomes impossible when your hands are very cold.
3. When you are paranoid and in the Farallons, a sea lion looks like a 25 foot great white shark. Good thing she wasn't able to get her gun loaded.
4. If you need to use the bang stick, you are supposed to make sure your buddies are behind you. If you needed a bang stick that badly and are able to touch the shark with it, since that's how you used it, chances are your buddy's eardrums are the least of your concerns.

Have bang sticks changed much since the 70s? I'd imagine so...

1. ehhhh, not really, sharks are not vicious killers, they dont't just see you and make a bee line at you and try to bite you. They are like dogs, curious, and will want a free lunch if they can get it. Free lunch, I mean fishes. They will circle you and check you out to see if you have any fish with you. If you show aggresive gestures toward them, most of the sharks will back off. Remember, underwater, an injury will guarantee you to get bitten... shark understand that too, so they will try everything to avoid being injured, including not start a fight that they don't know about the opponent... ie: human.

2. Actually it's not that hard loading a power head. I get the bullet in the power head, put it in a ziplock bag, when it come time, just slide it on to the spearshaft, take 5 seconds and you are done.

3. I don't just shoot something because there were a shadow or such a thing. Using the power head is the last resort. Once you shoot, you make sure you get a kill shot, an injured animal underwater is not something you want to deal with, so, no you don't see a shadow and start shooting like John Wayne. You pick your battle and chose the target and do it right.

 

[htn123]

How about that new S&W .500 Mag round they have out now? A 50 cal hole's gonna do some major trauma, but I'm not sure how hydrostatic shock works underwater vs. on the surface? I'd assume it should be fairly similar. I'd imagine the .444 would be good too, but the newer stuff like Smith's new 500 or Ruger's .480 should pack quite a whallop and get a full-burn on their charge.

The size of the bullet does not matter at all. The small size of the bullet will do very little damage to a fish. The powder gas expansion and the water column that gas force through the fish, now, that's the killer shot.
So, .223 bullet even thought smaller projectile than .357, it has much more powder burn with it and it is much more deadlier than the .357.
And no, when you shoot under water, the gas expansion and the sound will travel away from the shooter so you will not get any concussion period.... well, unless your power head acted like a torpedo and turn around and head toward you .