Best regulator for the money

[Hatul]

Looking for a good regulator at a good value..... so let me ask...

Just getting back into diving after a 30 year lay off. Can't believe how complicated everything has become. Finished my Advanced and at age 50++ I don't want to be bothered with a hard to breath regulators, which is what I have now. Unbalanced everything...

So, if a regulator has a balanced first and second stage, diver adjustable air flow, large enough second stage (for air volume), never diving in water below 40 degrees, is a name brand, THEN why spend huge money on a regulator??? If they are available for $300.00 then why spend much, much more??????

Don't mean to sound ignorant, I know this is a life threatening sport but if one does the job.... shouldn't it do the job??

Thanks

The problem is the regulator may breathe fine under normal conditions, but when things are not going right, you're working hard and on top of that get close to panic and hyperventilate, that's when you may overbreathe your regulator, and the feeling that you can't get enough air is very distressing.

Adam

 

[halocline]

The problem is the regulator may breathe fine under normal conditions, but when things are not going right, you're working hard and on top of that get close to panic and hyperventilate, that's when you may overbreathe your regulator, and the feeling that you can't get enough air is very distressing.

Adam

Sorry to disagree but overbreathing the flow rate of regulators is not something that happens with any reasonable quality recreational scuba reg in decent condition. Let's assume that you have a lower-quality unbalanced 2nd stage with a flow rate of 30SCFM; that's on the low end. That flow rate is the equivalent of emptying an AL80 in about 2 1/2 minutes; a tank valve alone will not do that. There simply is no situation in which a properly working reg won't produce enough air. The tank valve is the weak link in the flow chain.

Now, there is a very real psychological response to increased inhalation effort during anxiety, and regs in very poor tune can certainly feel difficult to breathe on. During a buddy breathing exercise a while back when I was doing my DM training, my buddy had a G250, one of the better 2nd stages ever made, and I felt like I couldn't get the air i wanted without really pulling on the thing. When we got out of the water, I checked her reg and it was adjusted to crack at almost 3" of water. A couple of turns on the orifice and she thought she had an entirely new reg.

The answer will almost always be to fix the current reg rather than simply buy a more expensive one.

 

[Wayne at DiveSeekers]

Dollar for Dollar the two best values are probably Oceanic GT3 & Atomic Z2

Oceanic CDX5/GT3 - Balanced Diaphragm/Adjustable 2nd Stage
Oceanic GT 3 Regulators *Buy Oceanic at DIVESEEKERS.com 888-SCUBA-47

Atomic Z2 - Balanced Piston/Adjustable 2nd Stage
Z2, Buy Atomic Aquatics at DIVESEEKERS.com 888-SCUBA-47

With Atomic, the engineering is basically the same up to their most expensive reg (T2). The only real differences is no swivel on 1st stage and the parts that they use. You won't make a mistake either way but if I have to vote for overall Performance & Reliability, I'll take the Atomic.

 

[jim2386]

Y It isn't that the surrounding water is freezing just that the moisture in the air (in the tank) is freezing inside the first stage (or second stage) as it expands.

Richard,

I'm no super expert but as far as I know, the air in your tank is extremely dry. This prevents tank corrosion in aluminums and rust in steels. The reason your first stage freezes is that because of thermodynamics, when air decreases in pressure it absorbs heat. This is why when you compress air in a tank, it gets warm. If you open the valve all the way and empty the tank quickly it will get ice cold.

If you get a piston type balanced first stage, water is in direct contact with your piston. If ice forms, it may lock up your piston causing a free flow.Some Internal piston parts today come with coatings to reduce ice buildup. So your comment about not knowing exactly when ice forms is valid because it depends on a lot of things. If you're in 40 degree water and you're very calm and slow breather, your first stage will not get very cold and ice buildup is unlikely. However if you're a new diver, or nervous or stressed you'll tend to breathe more quickly. This quick breathing chills the first stage and increases the chances of ice buildup.

Just what I've learned over the last few years. If you've got moist air in your tank it's probably not a good idea

-Jim

 

[Hatul]

Sorry to disagree but overbreathing the flow rate of regulators is not something that happens with any reasonable quality recreational scuba reg in decent condition. Let's assume that you have a lower-quality unbalanced 2nd stage with a flow rate of 30SCFM; that's on the low end. That flow rate is the equivalent of emptying an AL80 in about 2 1/2 minutes; a tank valve alone will not do that. There simply is no situation in which a properly working reg won't produce enough air. The tank valve is the weak link in the flow chain.

Now, there is a very real psychological response to increased inhalation effort during anxiety, and regs in very poor tune can certainly feel difficult to breathe on. During a buddy breathing exercise a while back when I was doing my DM training, my buddy had a G250, one of the better 2nd stages ever made, and I felt like I couldn't get the air i wanted without really pulling on the thing. When we got out of the water, I checked her reg and it was adjusted to crack at almost 3" of water. A couple of turns on the orifice and she thought she had an entirely new reg.

The answer will almost always be to fix the current reg rather than simply buy a more expensive one.

Maybe the term overbreathing is technically the wrong one. But I certainly have felt it was hard to breathe from my Oceanic Delta 2 at times. The reg is well maintained. Normally it breathes well but there were times when it was hard to breathe: hard surface swimming on back -- this may have to do with the 2nd stage being out of water, and working hard and stressed at depth. Especially when you're stressed you don't want to feel like you're breathing through a straw. Even small breathing restriction feels uncomfortable, and during stress can increase the feeling of panic.

When I mention this to Atomic owners they tell me they never have this issue, which makes me think there is a difference in reg performance at high breathing rates.

Adam

 

[halocline]

When I mention this to Atomic owners they tell me they never have this issue, which makes me think there is a difference in reg performance at high breathing rates.

Adam

It is possible, at least theoretically, that the high flow piston 1st stages react so quickly to IP demands that there is a feeling of greater flow in your mouth when huffing and puffing. That's the idea behind the flow-through piston design.

Flow rates themselves are pretty meaningless. However, under extreme demand, having a 1st stage that drops IP only 5-10PSI while really inhaling hard could conceivably result in a feeling of better flow. When I upgraded my DA aquamaster (doublehose) to a royal aquamaster which has a much better 1st stage seat and much better IP response (less drop) I noticed a big difference in the way the reg felt when I pushed it. In that case, the 2nd stage is identical.

I still think, though, that with modern regs, adjusting the 2nd stage optimally will make the biggest difference. I also think most divers are used to less-than-optimum adjustment in the 2nd stage. I'm spoiled because regs are a hobby for me and I'm used to well tuned D series 2nd stages with BP 1sts. You just don't get smoother delivery than that.

 

[elan]

If you realize that you cannot get enough air form the reg it might be a good reminder that you need to calm down

I never understood this "high flow best breathing reg blabla bla thing" I always put my flathead VI's knob in to the hardest position and ventury into - never had any problems with breathing efforts

 

[kathydee]

I posted a similar question a while back, perhaps the thread may contain some helpful information:

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/regulators/281780-whats-most-solid-reg-best-price.html

In the end I took the advice to purchase a back-up for myself . It took a little effort to pay the extra cash for the Scubapro MK25 S600.

But that's the best $ I've spent. Honestly, when I'm diving, it breathes so well the breath feels natural & I hardly notice I have a reg in my mouth.

It's always exciting to get new gear! Good luck with your decision & have fun diving!

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

If you realize that you cannot get enough air form the reg it might be a good reminder that you need to calm down

I never understood this "high flow best breathing reg blabla bla thing" I always put my flathead VI's knob in to the hardest position and ventury into - never had any problems with breathing efforts

Hi elan,

That is because your ZX 2nd stage is properly tuned (I dive a Zeagle Flathead VI too )....

But if that were not the case, your experience would be quite different with the adjuster knob cranked all the way down and the venturi switch set to "-". :shocked2:

It would be more like what mattboy described in an earlier post.

A correctly-tuned ZX (and I think most other adjustable 2nds) will still allow you to breath just fine even when set to the "hardest" breathing effort, but you should notice reduced breathing effort as your back off on the adjustment knob to the easiest setting, since the cracking effort is being influenced by adjusting this knob.

Best wishes.

 

[elan]

Hi elan,

That is because your ZX 2nd stage is properly tuned (I dive a Zeagle Flathead VI too )....

But if that were not the case, your experience would be quite different with the adjuster knob cranked all the way down and the venturi switch set to "-". :shocked2:

It would be more like what mattboy described in an earlier post.

A correctly-tuned ZX (and I think most other adjustable 2nds) will still allow you to breath just fine even when set to the "hardest" breathing effort, but you should notice reduced breathing effort as your back off on the adjustment knob to the easiest setting, since the cracking effort is being influenced by adjusting this knob.

Best wishes.

Yeah possible, I only turn it towards + when diving warm water, in cold water it helps me to avoid accidental free flows. I'm probably used to the settings and do not feel any limitation I dive them like this from day one. My IP is also reduced to 125-130