Big Mistake
- Thread starter SeaJay
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SeaJay
Contributor
It's easy to get lost somewhere in the middle, but the thread outlasted the flame. Keep reading.
Hoppy: My exercises for decreasing SAC have included a focus on the technique of breathing, and a more physically relaxed state of being while in the water.
Firstly, I play dead. I let the body go limp underwater. Then I arch my back and prop my legs to get the right position while still leaving the rest of my body relaxed. It actually takes a fair amount of focus.
Of course, that won't work unless your trimmed and bouyanced properly first, so that's a prerequisite to the equation.
Then I breathe like these guys do: http://www.mikey.net/aue/theater.htm
Check their videos out. Listen to the breathing. Of course, never close your throat... Simply pause at the top of the breath. This allows your lungs to exchange more of the O2 in each breath than it would with a simple in-out method. It also does something interesting to your buoyancy... Now, since you're at a much more constant volume, it's easier to pinpoint your buoyancy.
Of course, YMMV, always wear your safety belt, and all that sort of stuff.
Let the flames begin.
Hoppy: My exercises for decreasing SAC have included a focus on the technique of breathing, and a more physically relaxed state of being while in the water.
Firstly, I play dead. I let the body go limp underwater. Then I arch my back and prop my legs to get the right position while still leaving the rest of my body relaxed. It actually takes a fair amount of focus.
Of course, that won't work unless your trimmed and bouyanced properly first, so that's a prerequisite to the equation.
Then I breathe like these guys do: http://www.mikey.net/aue/theater.htm
Check their videos out. Listen to the breathing. Of course, never close your throat... Simply pause at the top of the breath. This allows your lungs to exchange more of the O2 in each breath than it would with a simple in-out method. It also does something interesting to your buoyancy... Now, since you're at a much more constant volume, it's easier to pinpoint your buoyancy.
Of course, YMMV, always wear your safety belt, and all that sort of stuff.
Let the flames begin.
Scubaroo
Contributor
!!!!!!!!!
People, get yourself under control.
Certain links are being edited out of this thread. They have no place on ScubaBoard.
People, get yourself under control.
Certain links are being edited out of this thread. They have no place on ScubaBoard.
Medic13. I don't recall stating in any of my posts that I was perfect. Nor do I recall anyone else stating that either.
If you think that I can be a pain in the blank in here, you should ask some of those that know me how much worse I am in person.
IMO, I don't believe I have insulted anyone, and I challenge you to point out a single post where this is the case. I posed some specific questions to SeaJay, based on the information he provided and I asked for clarification if I was misunderstanding. In case you missed his last post regarding those questions, he stated that several of my observations were correct and that I brought up some valid points.
The point of that discussion was not to bash SJ, and I honestly don't think that I did. He didnt seem to be offended by my comments or questions, and if he isn't I'm not sure why you feel the need to be.
If you have an issue with something I have posted, feel free to take it up with me in a PM.
To everyone else, I apologize for this temporary disruption of an otherwise interesting thread.
Hoppy
Guest
Whirling girl :
Maybe I need to give up the smokes ? I know I didn't put that in because it's so darned obvious , maybe I needed it rammed down my throat by the dive I just bailed out on.
DIR well............ I had thought about it but dont consider I'm good enough yet to consider putting myself through that, I get the impression you need to be a darned sight better than I am before you even read the book Maybe those who have done it could comment further ?
SJ:
Thanks for that, will download the vids tomorrow on the office connection
Relaxed is something I definately wasn't , as I said in an earlier post I was anxious, more practise reqd.
I'm interested in the arching technique you mention, care to PM a bit more info ? Or on here if you wanna risk the flames , your choice but I'd like to understand a bit better exactly what you mean.
Any body make cam bands for quads on here
Thx again folks, nice to see the old scubaboard coming back. Thats why I'm here to try and learn some stuff from people who have the dives and the hours in, and don't mind sharing experiences.
Shame they have to wear Kevlar to be able to do it.
Hoppy
Off to the pool tonight to see if he can make a 7ltr last more than the giant stride in. ;-0
Maybe I need to give up the smokes ? I know I didn't put that in because it's so darned obvious , maybe I needed it rammed down my throat by the dive I just bailed out on.
DIR well............ I had thought about it but dont consider I'm good enough yet to consider putting myself through that, I get the impression you need to be a darned sight better than I am before you even read the book
Maybe those who have done it could comment further ?SJ:
Thanks for that, will download the vids tomorrow on the office connection
Relaxed is something I definately wasn't , as I said in an earlier post I was anxious, more practise reqd.
I'm interested in the arching technique you mention, care to PM a bit more info ? Or on here if you wanna risk the flames , your choice but I'd like to understand a bit better exactly what you mean.
Any body make cam bands for quads on here
Thx again folks, nice to see the old scubaboard coming back. Thats why I'm here to try and learn some stuff from people who have the dives and the hours in, and don't mind sharing experiences.
Shame they have to wear Kevlar to be able to do it.
Hoppy
Off to the pool tonight to see if he can make a 7ltr last more than the giant stride in. ;-0
What are you talking about?
I have stated nothing that hasn't been true. If seajay had truely been interested in learning from his mistake, then he would have read the statements and either agreed or disagreed with them. His choice. He chose to do neither, and instead decided to argue with EVERYONE else about every portion of the dive.
Now we find out that this was not a mistake at all. He had been planning on exceeding the NDL for some time, even asking questions ON THE INTERNET trying to find the best way to accomplish this type of diving.
You don't want to see him hurt? I wish him no harm either. Seems like only some people "get it". If you want to conduct decompression diving, get trained. Simple as that. And that training should be conducted by a certified instructor. THEN you can reinforce that training through discussion.
I apologized for allowing his insults to prod me into replying with the same. Go back and read it. I said nothing untrue. It wasn't what he wanted to hear, so he attacked me. Sockpuppet this, troll that. ONE OF MY POSTS was derrogatory. He continually has bashed me. Now, who the hell do you think you are? You're not even involved in the discussion, but had to butt in.
Do we need to review:
1. conducting deco dives without proper training
2. not understanding his dive computer
3. improper dive profile. And if you want to dive this type of profile, improper training.
4. No understanding of ceilings and how/where to conduct stops
5. trying to learn via the internet without formal training
6. lack of training in dive planning
7. no predive brief
8. lack of buddy skills
These are truths. Harsh truths. If you want warm and fuzzy agreements... don't look here. I call them like I see them. And some BS just gets deeper and deeper.
Don't dive stupid
Dive within your training
I have stated nothing that hasn't been true. If seajay had truely been interested in learning from his mistake, then he would have read the statements and either agreed or disagreed with them. His choice. He chose to do neither, and instead decided to argue with EVERYONE else about every portion of the dive.
Now we find out that this was not a mistake at all. He had been planning on exceeding the NDL for some time, even asking questions ON THE INTERNET trying to find the best way to accomplish this type of diving.
You don't want to see him hurt? I wish him no harm either. Seems like only some people "get it". If you want to conduct decompression diving, get trained. Simple as that. And that training should be conducted by a certified instructor. THEN you can reinforce that training through discussion.
I apologized for allowing his insults to prod me into replying with the same. Go back and read it. I said nothing untrue. It wasn't what he wanted to hear, so he attacked me. Sockpuppet this, troll that. ONE OF MY POSTS was derrogatory. He continually has bashed me. Now, who the hell do you think you are? You're not even involved in the discussion, but had to butt in.
Do we need to review:
1. conducting deco dives without proper training
2. not understanding his dive computer
3. improper dive profile. And if you want to dive this type of profile, improper training.
4. No understanding of ceilings and how/where to conduct stops
5. trying to learn via the internet without formal training
6. lack of training in dive planning
7. no predive brief
8. lack of buddy skills
These are truths. Harsh truths. If you want warm and fuzzy agreements... don't look here. I call them like I see them. And some BS just gets deeper and deeper.
Don't dive stupid
Dive within your training
Whirling Girl
Contributor
You're kidding, right? Right? you're not kidding, are you.
Sigh.
Dude, don't dive and smoke. Does anyone really need to tell you that? But maybe hearing it this time will make a difference because you sound like you might be ready to stop doing it. You have my support.
Smoking is bad for you. But smoking and diving, that's just stupid. No offense. So take this fabulous opportunity to grit your teeth and quit, and enjoy the fact that you'll be a much better, and safer, diver as a result.
I'll comment. I took DIR with only 25 dives. I think it gave me an advantage, actually, because I didn't have bad habits yet that I needed to break, and I had no ego whatsoever about my diving abilities.DIR well............ I had thought about it but dont consider I'm good enough yet to consider putting myself through that, I get the impression you need to be a darned sight better than I am before you even read the book
Some of my friends are SSI and GUE instructors, and they tell funny stories about some of the divers who take DIR. The worst students are the divers who let their egos get in the way. DIR skills just take practice, but they are hard as hell the first time. That's why you take a course to learn them. When a diver worries about looking like a fool, or has a huge ego about their diving, they will have problems.
I love the look of shock on the faces of other divers when they see the perfect buoyancy and trim and control in the water that all of the instructors and divemasters I dive with have. I really like it when a diver comes up and says "How do you do that? I wanna be able to do that!" It's so gratifying.
So, in other words, you're fine. Go ahead and take DIRF.
My DIRF instructor was actually quite gentle with me. I was inexperienced and scared about taking off my mask, in particular, but he still made me learn the skills, and he tested me several times without me knowing it. Alot of DIR is buddy awareness and it's amazing what you will learn.
The hardest skill was having to take off my mask at 30 feet, hover for a few minutes and get used to being blind, and then do a controlled ascent at less than 10' per minute all the way to the surface, purely by feel. It's amazing what you can sense underwater even if you can't see anything. Once I relaxed, I could tell where the surface was, I could feel the bubbles rising past my face, I could feel my ears crackle slightly when they pressurized at shallower depths, I could feel my ascent speed and knew when to dump air to slow down. It was awesome.
Even though I was actually crying the entire time. But that's another issue.
It was a really hard class, both physically and mentally, but I had a real sense of accomplishment afterwards. Now I dive with people who like to play in the water column for fun, do drills during every dive, and play games that most divers just can't play because they don't have the buoyancy control and buddy awareness.
I think for DIRF they recommend you have at least 25 dives, but that's it. Alot of instructors from other agencies take DIRF, at least in this area, and they always seem amazed at how much there is for them to learn. If they are open to it and not defensive or arrogant, they learn a lot. If they are defensive and arrogant, they get their asses kicked by their instructors, but they still learn alot.
Either way, you learn alot. If you have the right attitude, you'll have a lot of fun, too. It was the most fun I had ever had diving, and it changed everything.
You'll learn it in Fundamentals. It might take several dives after the class is over before you really get the feeling of being stretched out and perfectly trimmed in the water, but it will come.
I forgot to also suggest that YOGA is the most fabulous exercise there is, but especially for divers.
Quit smoking. Do yoga. Ohm...
Margaret
Whirling Girl
Contributor
OK, sorry everyone if that post was too rah rah DIR. I just read it and went "dang, where's my cheerleading outfit? I saw it around here somewhere..."
I am Raven. I don't have to think I am anyone or anything. You yourself were not involved in the discussion, but you butted in. As a matter of fact. You had no more right than anyone. The post was for educational purposes. Not what you posted.
Again you extract and twist information. Just because people ask questions doesn't mean they are "planning" anything. There are many questions asked. Someone questioned if an underwater photo was real. This doesn't mean that he was planning on trying to prove it was an imposter and then reporting it to the world.
People ask "what if" questions all the time here. Sometimes it is for preventive maintenance.
The simple fact remains, you have said what you wanted over and over. It has been noted. I just asked you to stop repeating and change the hostile tone. Check your post now, is it anything new? Really? We've heard you loud and clear.
My first reaction was to flip you off and tell you to kiss my a$$, but I am not going to go there. You just want to provoke and as frustrating as you are, well, anyway. I am being nice now when I say - Please - Stop. You aren't saying anything new or useful.
R
I havn't been chiming in on this thread but It has been a load of fun reading.
Seajay ask's for feedback on his mistakes takes a bit of heat then spends his time defending and makeing excuses on how or why he made the mistakes. Then lashes back becuse he takes it too personel. Then we have Raven comming to his rescue.
Now before you post back I don't know either of you personaly and have nothing against either of you. SeaJay you knew you were going to take some heat for your post. You say your Ok with takeing a bit of heat. Why don't you just stop, Take the posts for whatever value there worth and try and learn where you messed up and how not to let it happen again. You can't defend a mistake like this but you can learn from it.
You asked for help in understanding your mistake but then refuse to listen to anyone who post that you don't agree with and then attack back. We all make mistakes but it only when our ego's won't let us admit it that we don't learn for it. If we knew what was wrong when we made the mistake we wouldn't need for someone to tell us we were wrong and wouldn't ask.
The biggest mistake I think your makeing is your EGO which I think dosn't have a place in safe diving. At some point in time that EGO will kick in and get you hurt.
You may say you don't have an EGO but look at your goals. When you found out about DIR you jumped in overhead because you thought this was such a better dive system (ego says I have to be the best and have the best). Then your quest for a world record. What does that prove to anyone, who will benifit from that, no one except your EGO (Ego says again I have to be the best and I'll prove it by holding a record) Now since I don't know you by anything else except your posts so could be I've got the wrong impression. If I'm wrong I'm sure you or raven will let me know.
My best advice is that you need to sit down and really think about why you dive and what you want out of diving. Plan for it and get the training that will help you achive that goal. If you dive because of some ego trip then no matter what training you get it will never be enough to meet the need that your ego will push untill you reach the point where you push too far and get hurt.
This is not intended as a flame or to be hurtfull but I am concerned and wish you well in all your endevors.
Geek
Seajay ask's for feedback on his mistakes takes a bit of heat then spends his time defending and makeing excuses on how or why he made the mistakes. Then lashes back becuse he takes it too personel. Then we have Raven comming to his rescue.
Now before you post back I don't know either of you personaly and have nothing against either of you. SeaJay you knew you were going to take some heat for your post. You say your Ok with takeing a bit of heat. Why don't you just stop, Take the posts for whatever value there worth and try and learn where you messed up and how not to let it happen again. You can't defend a mistake like this but you can learn from it.
You asked for help in understanding your mistake but then refuse to listen to anyone who post that you don't agree with and then attack back. We all make mistakes but it only when our ego's won't let us admit it that we don't learn for it. If we knew what was wrong when we made the mistake we wouldn't need for someone to tell us we were wrong and wouldn't ask.
The biggest mistake I think your makeing is your EGO which I think dosn't have a place in safe diving. At some point in time that EGO will kick in and get you hurt.
You may say you don't have an EGO but look at your goals. When you found out about DIR you jumped in overhead because you thought this was such a better dive system (ego says I have to be the best and have the best). Then your quest for a world record. What does that prove to anyone, who will benifit from that, no one except your EGO (Ego says again I have to be the best and I'll prove it by holding a record) Now since I don't know you by anything else except your posts so could be I've got the wrong impression. If I'm wrong I'm sure you or raven will let me know.
My best advice is that you need to sit down and really think about why you dive and what you want out of diving. Plan for it and get the training that will help you achive that goal. If you dive because of some ego trip then no matter what training you get it will never be enough to meet the need that your ego will push untill you reach the point where you push too far and get hurt.
This is not intended as a flame or to be hurtfull but I am concerned and wish you well in all your endevors.
Geek
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