Blue Heron Bridge Trolls III

[Green Frog]

Is that a MoW Fish on the left side of photo #2? The ones in the middle look kinda like Hamlets of some sort to me? I’m not seeing anything I would call a Jack either(?)

 

[Pipehorse]

@PBcatfish, I uploaded the same image to inaturalist.org as "Jacks", got a hit less than 24 hours later of Banded Rudderfish, which is in the Jack family. Greater Amberjacks can look similar as well when juvenile. I don't think hanging out under Man O War Jellyfish in open water is something juvenile groupers would do as part of their life cycle.

@Green Frog yes there is a Man O War fish to the left, the "jack" / Banded Rudderfish is close to center frame. Hamlets do not hang out in open water under Man O War Jellyfish.

Went to the bridge for diving today. Arrived at 1200 for a 1415 high tide. The park was not crowded. Did not snorkel this time. Entered the west side on scuba at 1225. Sea temp holding at 73f, visibility at about 30ft. Did a REEF fish survey of 44 species in 60 minutes. A low species count because I spent the majority of time in algae or bryozoan patches. Did observe Striated Frogfish, Dwarf Frogfish, Lined Seahorse, Pugnose Pipefish (I think), and Janolus flavoanulatus. The Pugnose Pipefish is exciting, it only occurs three times in the REEF database, one of those times observed by me at the Bridge.

Respectively, Dwarf Frogfish, Janolatus flavoanulatus, Spotted Trunkfish, Lined Seahorse, Pugnose Pipefish

 

[Johnoly]

Janolatus flavoanulatus,

Very cool looking and unique nudibranch! BHB is a treasure for sure!!

 

[PBcatfish]

@PBcatfish, I uploaded the same image to inaturalist.org as "Jacks", got a hit less than 24 hours later of Banded Rudderfish, which is in the Jack family. Greater Amberjacks can look similar as well when juvenile. I don't think hanging out under Man O War Jellyfish in open water is something juvenile groupers would do as part of their life cycle.

I'm pretty familiar with the banded rudderfish & the amberjack. I've caught many of both. The two are sometimes confused by some people. When I used to fish a lot, I paid careful attention to the details of those species as the take limits are different. At that time I knew how to tell a greater amberjack from a lessor by counting the gill rakers. To my knowledge that is the only positive ID method that does not involve cutting them open.

The fish to the right of the man o war do not look like rudderfish nor AJ to me. The body shape & coloring are both different from what I have seen in the local populations in this area in the past. The coloring is a possible variation in the first fish on the left. The other two I can't see well enough to judge the tel-tale eye stripe. The body shape is what leaves me more firmly unconvinced at this time.

This was my original source of information on that fish. Banded Rudderfish It was later augmented by books & data from agencies in other states where it is regulated as a game fish.

Your general knowledge of fish ID exceeds mine by orders of magnitude. But, when it comes to many of the local game-fish species, my background tends to be a bit more firm than my general species knowledge.

That aside, I'll go back & do a little more research. Perhaps I have been making a mistake for many years. If so, I'd like to correct that. Thank you for the response.

...and as always, thank you for the large array of fantastic pictures and information that you continue to provide. You represent the single best asset that I have found here on this website. Your posts probably draw a lot of people to travel here to see the wonders that you make known.

Edit:
Then again, perhaps the angle of the shot makes the shape of the body appear different.
...and, new to me, this source claims that you can tell a greater from a lessor by counting dorsal fin spines - Imposters! The Other Jacks and How to Identify Them
I still seem to learn something new every day.

 

[vr2o]

Anyone diving BHB this weekend that I can join?. I'm more on the newbie side, still improving. Need weights and tank. Thanks

----

Well, high tide is a bit early this weekend...

 

[Pipehorse]

@PBcatfish I like the very last link you provided. I did know about the eye stripe of Lesser not hitting the dorsal fin, and the eye stripe of the Greater hitting the dorsal fin. The Almaco Jack are usually smaller and the higher profile dorsal fin is a dead give away. Banded Rudderfish reference from FWC states juveniles are associated with floating debris and weed lines. In inaturalist.org under "about" for Greater Amberjack it states juveniles are associated with floating algae such as Sargassum and floating debris. If you go to Smithsonian Tropical Research Institute, stri compare and punch in Banded Rudder, Greater Amberjack, Lesser Amberjack, and Almaco Jack you can see images of the juveniles. Banded Rudder and Greater Amberjack look a lot like, Lesser Amberjack not so much. Thing is if you are looking at little 1.5 inch juveniles, they could all easily be confused with one another. That's why I originally wrote "unidentifed jack". I have been watching same under Sargassum Floats for twenty five years, and know they were juvenile jacks, but never bother drilling down to see which is which. I didn't make the ident on inaturalist, somebody else did. Point is, I was leaning on behavior (hanging out under debris) as much as how the fish appears. If I look at that fish, and I extrapolate it in my minds eye, it does very much have the shape of a jack. Of course extrapolating a fishes growth in one's mind eye is totally subjective. I am glad you find the images to be of some value, and I appreciate the kind comments and all the thumbs up. BTW, that goes for everybody else here giving the thumbs up as well.

Went to the bridge for diving today. Arrived at 1300 for 1530 high tide. The park was not crowded when arrived, but was crowded when I left at 1530. Snorkeled the trail and did a REEF survey of 45 species in 55 minutes. Returned to the truck and donned scuba. Entered the westside, meandered around the west end of the snorkel trail, then headed further west in to Bryozoan and Algae Patches. Did a REEF survey of 46 species in 60 minutes. Observed the Pugnose Pipefish from yesterday. Observed a juvenile Searobin, I can't identify with certainty, maybe a Bighead or a Northern. Respectively, Bluethroat Pikeblenny (male), Octopus, Bluespot Cornetfish, Fringed Filefish, and Unidentified Searobin (maybe Bighead or Northern)

 

[Six Feet Under]

I've been staying with my wife in Melbourne the last couple of days on a work trip so I decided to shoot down to the bridge yesterday and get a dive in. I love the site but I swear I'm cursed with what I consider poor viz every time I go there.

Had a few problems to fix (pulled a wire out of the Anderson connector in my DPV and didn't have any electrical tape for a short-term fix, forgot my GoPro mount and had to go to Walmart, and then stop for a weight for the dive flag float because all I could find at the house were two 3lb hard weights) before getting to Phil Foster park, so I was a bit delayed and got in the water basically AT high tide... still had a cool dive though.

I would really like to try to get back down there this summer when conditions are known to be good, and see if we have 20+ feet of viz because yesterday just didn't seem like it to me, except maybe at peak high tide for about five minutes. Sucks, too, because I had nothing to do until I tore that wire out of the scooter assembling it in the hotel room and I had planned on getting down there early enough to be IN the water by like 1400

 

[Johnoly]

I would really like to try to get back down there this summer when conditions are known to be good,

There's really good viz in the ocean right now,,,,,,but,,,,,,,,Lk Okee is at 16.2ft and the Army is still doing some small but frequent lake releases out of the WPB gates. I'm diving the ocean tomorrow and I'll post up a viz report. Not always but they will sometimes try to hit that outgoing high tide with releases. With Lk O being really full and it's only March, we'll see what the summer time rains bring because in past years we've had some massive 'full 6 gate openings' while they try to drain down the frequent June rains. You might want to do a return visit before summertime.

 

[PBcatfish]

@PBcatfish I like the very last link you provided. I did know about the eye stripe of Lesser not hitting the dorsal fin, and the eye stripe of the Greater hitting the dorsal fin. The Almaco Jack are usually smaller and the higher profile dorsal fin is a dead give away. Banded Rudderfish reference from FWC states juveniles are associated with floating debris and weed lines. In inaturalist.org under "about" for Greater Amberjack it states juveniles are associated with floating algae such as Sargassum and floating debris. If you go to Smithsonian Tropical Research Institute, stri compare and punch in Banded Rudder, Greater Amberjack, Lesser Amberjack, and Almaco Jack you can see images of the juveniles. Banded Rudder and Greater Amberjack look a lot like, Lesser Amberjack not so much. Thing is if you are looking at little 1.5 inch juveniles, they could all easily be confused with one another. That's why I originally wrote "unidentifed jack". I have been watching same under Sargassum Floats for twenty five years, and know they were juvenile jacks, but never bother drilling down to see which is which. I didn't make the ident on inaturalist, somebody else did. Point is, I was leaning on behavior (hanging out under debris) as much as how the fish appears. If I look at that fish, and I extrapolate it in my minds eye, it does very much have the shape of a jack. Of course extrapolating a fishes growth in one's mind eye is totally subjective. I am glad you find the images to be of some value, and I appreciate the kind comments and all the thumbs up. BTW, that goes for everybody else here giving the thumbs up as well.
...

Geeze, if I turned up information that you did not already know, then I really did accomplish something the other day.

The Almacos around here I can spot from 50 yard out due to the higher body profile & fin shapes that you list. The toughest call for me has been if an in-slot lessor is actually a short greater or not. An FWC officer tried to tag me for that once (3 fish in the boat), but counting gill rakers kept me from getting a hefty fine that day. I now see that other ID options also exist.

In this area, the 10"+ lessors hang on near shore structure & the greaters hang on several slightly deeper structures. The greaters in this area tend to be horribly worm infested, so I don't keep them. The lessors are often mixed with rainbow runners, another cousin that can be confused with the adult rudderfish.

I did not realize that the unidentified jacks in your picture were less than 2" long. I thought that they were larger fish that were further away. Juveniles that young, often do have different body shapes & markings. That really clears things up for me. That solves the mystery. I had missed that detail.

In a related example, in a spot where I used to collect scaled sardines for bait, I also caught similar sized fish with vertical stripes that I could not identify at the time. They turned out to be very young Bluefin Tuna. I had accidentally stumbled across their route from the spawning grounds to where they grow. The spot was roughly 600 miles from the spawning grounds. The fish were 5-9" in length. They looked NOTHING like an adult bluefin. I never would have guessed. On the flip side, a 4" barracuda is easily recognized as what it is. I've accidentally picked them up in a cast net before.

As for weed lines, all sorts of very small critters hang out in the off-shore sargasm. Shrimp the size of a rice grain are often most abundant, but everything from tiny little crabs to all sorts of very small fin-fish are often present. If you throw a clump on deck, then pull out a magnifying glass, all sorts of interesting things can be found flipping around on deck & crawling out from the mess.

 

[PBcatfish]

I've been staying with my wife in Melbourne the last couple of days on a work trip so I decided to shoot down to the bridge yesterday and get a dive in. I love the site but I swear I'm cursed with what I consider poor viz every time I go there.

Had a few problems to fix (pulled a wire out of the Anderson connector in my DPV and didn't have any electrical tape for a short-term fix, forgot my GoPro mount and had to go to Walmart, and then stop for a weight for the dive flag float because all I could find at the house were two 3lb hard weights) before getting to Phil Foster park, so I was a bit delayed and got in the water basically AT high tide... still had a cool dive though.

I would really like to try to get back down there this summer when conditions are known to be good, and see if we have 20+ feet of viz because yesterday just didn't seem like it to me, except maybe at peak high tide for about five minutes. Sucks, too, because I had nothing to do until I tore that wire out of the scooter assembling it in the hotel room and I had planned on getting down there early enough to be IN the water by like 1400

Yea, try diving Boston Harbor sometime. It will adjust your perspective. Suddenly a bad day here looks great!
Jokes aside, conditions here do vary.

As for Anderson connectors, I stock the gray SB50 size & the crimp tool for them in my shop, about 10 miles from BHB. Let me know if you need a fast repair. I may also have one or two of larger sizes & different colors. The color matters. Different colors don't plug together.