BP/W for a New Diver

[Splitlip]

That would probably be nicer than the bullets.

I looked at some pouches at the shop but they wanted $37 & my cheapness response kicked in.


Hmmm...$15 delivered from Amazon...

I just checked scubatoys. They have xs pouches for $8.95 each. Try and get the ones intended to go on the cam scraps only because of the Velcro outside. I used the standard ones too without issue however.

 

[3D diver]

I'm totally buying into the modularity...just, "bubba" ideas asside, too cheap to buy much more than lead and maybe some lead pockets while my existing BC keeps working.

But, as I said before, I'm nuts about money---penny wise & pound foolish is a good description---so may change my mind as I learn more about BP/W systems and get in some more bottom time.

Thank you for indulging me in my brainstorming.

 

[Deep South Divers]

You don't have to use it with the 6lbs weight insert. That's the beauty of a modular system. With a SS plate, sta (with optional removable 6lbs weight), two trim pockets on the lower cam belt, you adjust your weight from 6lbs to 22 lbs total.

Can you elaborate on this? We've only talked about an AL plate (-1 lb), a SS plate (-6 lbs), a "light" STA (-1 lb) and a weighted STA (-6 lbs). That accounts for anywhere from -1 lb (AL plate with STA-less wing) to -12 lbs (SS plate with weighted STA). How do you get -22 lbs?

 

[ddmattos]

Can you elaborate on this? We've only talked about an AL plate (-1 lb), a SS plate (-6 lbs), a "light" STA (-1 lb) and a weighted STA (-6 lbs). That accounts for anywhere from -1 lb (AL plate with STA-less wing) to -12 lbs (SS plate with weighted STA). How do you get -22 lbs?

Two trim pockets on the lower cam belt with up to 5 lbs each makes 10lbs plus 12 from the weighted STA equals 22lbs. But the most I ever needed was 18 lbs on a really cold dive with layered undergarments and I still could have dropped two lbs. Using mainly your bcd for buoyancy and not the suit, lung control and proper undergarments with a trilam are key to keeping needed weight low. So OP please don't think that because you go dry that you will need a ton of weight from the start. I know everyone is different but look at you kit and be conscious of you lungs. Figure out the minimum buoyancy characteristics of you gear and start from there and do a buoyancy check with a 500psi tank in a controlled very shallow environmental with a competent buddy who can add weight as needed and help when needed.

I use the halcyon trim pockets with my hollis rig because they have velcro plus a clasp type closure. I mount the pockets upside down so I or my buddy can easily open and let the weight drop if needed.

I know some bcd's are more buoyant than others based on materials but be conscious of trapped air as well.

 

[3D diver]

I just checked scubatoys. They have xs pouches for $8.95 each. Try and get the ones intended to go on the cam scraps only because of the Velcro outside. I used the standard ones too without issue however.

Ooops...$8.64 shipping. They don't have the WB101-V Weight Pocket w/ Velcro Front, either. But thanks for the suggestion, I'll bookmark their site for future reference.

 

[halocline]

So here's a "bubba" idea: would it be possible/practical to add a SS backplate to an existing BC by threading the tank cam straps through the plate? (between the BC & tank)

One of the best things about diving with a BP/W is the fact that it does not have the padding, excess straps, buckles, etc of a jacket BC. So, adding a BP to a jacket BC doesn't really make much sense IMO. Just get a BP, webbing harness, and a simple wing, and use the simple XSscuba pockets on both the waist belt and camstraps; if necessary for colder water/more weight, get a separate weight belt or weight harness.

The STA argument has been going on for as long as I've been on this board. It's helpful to understand that the whole point of the STA was to ADAPT backplates that were designed for doubles. Once plates and wings started being designed for single tank use, the STA was no longer necessary is those systems. I don't think there's any inherent advantage to using one anymore, unless you have a wing and/or plate that needs one. Some people like them, some are just used to them, others (like me) would have zero interest in using one.

 

[Deep South Divers]

One of the best things about diving with a BP/W is the fact that it does not have the padding, excess straps, buckles, etc of a jacket BC. So, adding a BP to a jacket BC doesn't really make much sense IMO.

Totally agree! +1!

The STA argument has been going on for as long as I've been on this board.

Agreed.

I don't think there's any inherent advantage to using one anymore...

I can think of several...

They:

1. Provide a more solid mount for the single tank. If you are using the STA with a set of cam bands that completely come apart (like Highland, DSS, or Scubapro), then you'll want to put the tank on your rig with the rig face-down on the deck; in other words, laying the tank down on top of the rig. With a STA, the tank doesn't roll off of the rig like it does with a STAless design during assembly. This is surprisingly a big deal on a rocking boat.

2. Keep the rig together when the tank is not on the rig. Without a STA bolted through the wing, the wing and rest of the rig are not bolted solidly together.

3. Provide a variety of additional weighting options, ranging from a few ounces to as much as 6 pounds, depending on which STA you use.

4. Provide another 1/2" to 3/4" clearance for the diver's head to prevent head/first stage interference. This allows the diver to achieve clearance without having to push the tank another two inches down his/her back, which can screw up trim and make the tank hit the buttocks and thighs of shorter-torsoed people.

5. Make it easier to reach the tank valve because the tank is not adjusted too low (see #4).

6. Provide a "mark" from which to properly adjust the height on the tank on the rig. With a STA, the top of the top cam band should always be at the base of the shoulder of the tank... In other words, the cam band should be as high as it can possibly be on the tank. This provides a reference point for the diver that's assembling, and therefore consistent results in assembly. A diver therefore always has the tank valve in the same place for reaching, and always gets the same trim characteristics and "feel" of the rig... Which helps the diver to develop consistent skills. If this method of placement is used with a STAless wing, then the tank is too low. When I dive without a STA, I mount the tank with the cam bands slightly below this mark (by about an inch) and the results are inconsistent. The tank valve - which is now harder to reach - requires a little guesswork and is not always in the same spot.

7. The use of a STA means quicker changes from singles to doubles. In a STAless design, I have to unthread the cam bands to disassemble the wing and switch to doubles. With a STA design, it's two thumb bolts and the switch is easy. Switching back to singles is also easier if the diver is using a STA, and the cam bands don't need to be readjusted (which is always a matter of trial and error) because they were disassembled.

8. If a diver uses a STA, then he or she is not limited in what wing he or she can use - all wings can be used with a STA. Not all wings can be used STAless, and therefore a diver is limited on which wings he or she can purchase if they decide to dive STAless.

STAless wings were pioneered by Halcyon about 12 or 15 years ago... At least, in terms of purchasable, purpose-built STAless wings. Since then, Halcyon has given up on the idea of the STAless wing, and all of their singles wings are now sold as a STA-required design. That says a lot.

If you ask Jarrod Jablonski - the owner of Halcyon - which I did several years ago when he and his team developed the Eclipse - he will tell you that most divers were choosing to dive with a STA even though his previous singles wings (called the Pioneer, which was replaced by the Eclipse) were equipped to dive STAless. This observation prompted him to forgo the STAless slots and delrin rods in his latest wing designs.

To me, diving STAless is an outdated idea from over a decade ago, before we all tried it and decided to keep the solidity and better geometry and weighting options of a STA.

Your opinion may vary, of course.

 

[Kern]

To me, diving STAless is an outdated idea from over a decade ago, before we all tried it and decided to keep the solidity and better geometry and weighting options of a STA.

Your opinion may vary, of course.

It does.

I use a DSS BP/W, the cam bands don't come apart, they're just a basic, standard came band.

The wing stays with the rig, no bolts required, it's clever that way. It's never a problem to change tanks on a boat, quick & simple in fact.

There are many weighting options, other than STA's.

My reg doesn't hit me in the head. The tank valve is easy to reach.
My top cam band is at the shoulder of the tank.

When I purchase a BP/W, I decide what I want, & I get it. Once I have it, I use it, not some odd assortment of other peoples equipment. If I really have to use someone else's kit, & they have a wing that will only work with an STA, they'll probably have one of those as well. I don't feel limited in where, when, how, why, I dive. I think this one was an extreme stretch, even in such a subjective list.

As to JJ, & Halcyon, well, some biases are quite clear.

PS. If someone said they were going to use an STA with my kit, I'd have to disagree.

 

[t1n_2]

Just read the full 9 pages of this thread and i must thank you guys for the all the info (didnt even know what STA was at the start). Firstly, I apologize for interrupting the thread, I am thinking of getting myself a BCD (shipping it to Vancouver, Canada from the US) and i'm kinda stuck at the following options :

1) DRIS Dive Gear 28lb BP/W System DRIS Dive Gear 28lb BP/W System - Dive Right In Scuba - Plainfield, IL
2) Zeagle Express Tech Zeagle Express Tech Kit scuba diving gear at Zeagle Express

(I hope i am not doing anything unethical/illegal by posting the websites but if I am, i'll edit it straight away)

Both are priced at under $300 although the ZET is slightly cheaper. I also went to a local LDS here in Vancouver that recommended a BP/W set up (Oxycheq BP SS, Oxycheq 40lb wing, and a Hog Harness for about $750 CAD). I liked the fact that he recommended a BP/W instead of the typical *BP/W is for tech etc which i have often heard*. I would love to support the local LDS but the price difference involved is too much though i will most likely do my dry suit orientation with them.

I was hoping i could get your advice with regards to the wing lift i should be going for. The zeagle comes with a 24lbs but can be upgraded to a 30 or 35lbs. the DRIS package comes with a 28lbs lift. While the LDS recommended the 40lbs. I will be most using the gear to dive in warm waters but i definitely want to try out the cold water diving while im in Canada. At first i was totally convinced of the Zeagle Express Tech but now the more i read and search, i am more convinced that the DRIS BP/W package is better for me since its modular etc plus i can always change the STA that is included etc as well as changing the wing to fit double tanks etc.

Well yeah, like i said, i do apologize for interrupting but i kinda felt this might be somewhat applicable to new folks trying to find a BCD for themselves. Sorry if i may have asked anything that was already answered.

 

[ddmattos]

The wing stays with the rig, no bolts required, it's clever that way. It's never a problem to change tanks on a boat, quick & simple in fact.

There are many weighting options, other than STA's.

I don't have to unthread my cam bands to change from single tanks to doubles.

So if you you don't unthread you cam belts, you sandwich them in between your wing and doubles? Also how do you switch wings? It should only take less than a minute to unthread and would allow your wing to lay nicer against the tanks.