Building a Better BC

[Rich Keller]

Does anyone remember the wetsuits that were coming out with built in air pockets that would take the place of the BC?

I never heard of that before. Who made it? How did it work?

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I saw something along those lines but they were not actually made for diving. They were for surfers, snorkelers, and paddlers who might find themselves in a situation where they were without a life vest and could inflate panels in the suit. I had a couple emails from the company when they were looking for dealers.

 

[NC Air Hog]

I never heard of that before. Who made it? How did it work?

It was years ago. At one of the trade shows there was a booth with your average, Asian wetsuit manufacturers. They had a prototype with the air cells within the suit itself. I do not believe the idea ever took off.

 

[Akimbo]

There are ideas from the first wing, the At Pac manufactured by Water Gil, that are worth taking another look at. I used it for about 20 years.

The entire bladder was covered with an elastic material. The material itself was weak on protection but great for keeping the bladder from flopping around.

It also used a short inflator hose with the QD (Quick Disconnect) near the top elbow. An LP hose ran down the center of the corrugated hose to the power inflator. One of the problems with their design was the corrugated hose’s flow was restricted a little too much by the LP hose, but the oval hoses today would be probably be large enough.

Also, the power inflator itself was made of brass, which provided enough weight that the hose never floated around. It was always easy to find even after jumping off a boat.

IMHO, the rest of the At Pac was silly including their integrated shot weight system and fiberglass cowling. But with a little modification the wing worked great. The attached image shows it attached to a blow-molded back pack that was popular in the 80s.

 

[stuartv]

Andy, the DSS plates with the weight plates are absolutely spectacular. Not cheap, but man are they wonderful

I have a DSS plate and really like how the wing goes on and off in a few seconds without having to unthread the cam bands. I've flown with my gear once and I detached the wing and kind of rolled it up, then packed it in my carry-on, along with the plate, my wetsuit, regulator case, and mask. It all fit, no problem. The weight of it didn't bother me - and nobody else ever had to lift it.

I just got the DSS bolt-on weight plates and I'm thinking they'll let me dive in the Caribbean with no additional weight at all. That should be pretty darn sweet! And, again, I don't care if my carry-on has 14 pounds worth of plate and bolt-on weights in it.

Also, somewhat along the lines of the buni wings of death. Would there be a way to make an internal bladder constriction system that would constrict the bladder to a lower volume. If you could have a 40-lb bladder that would work for when the diver is in cold water and then pulling a few strings would uniformly reduce the bladder to 25 lbs or something would be nice if going on vacation in warm water.

This was exactly the idea I had when I started reading this thread! I have a 30 # wing, which (hopefully) will be good when I'm diving close to home in colder water. But, when I was diving off Coz last month, I definitely would have rather had the 17 # wing that DSS recommended to me.

I was thinking a simple zipper around the outside of the wing, like some suit cases have, that would let it expand an inch or two. When zipped down to the smaller size, there would be no loose material flapping around because it would be contained inside the wing. When unzipped, well, obviously, there would be no extra material flopping around.

And, worst case, if the zipper fails while diving, it just means you now have a wing with more lift than you need. I think I'm going to call Tobin and ask him about this.

 

[flots am]

Does anyone remember the wetsuits that were coming out with built in air pockets that would take the place of the BC? That idea never quite took off either.

It's very popular in colder areas, and is called a "drysuit"

flots.

 

[decompression]

I have a DSS plate and really like how the wing goes on and off in a few seconds without having to unthread the cam bands. I've flown with my gear once and I detached the wing and kind of rolled it up, then packed it in my carry-on, along with the plate, my wetsuit, regulator case, and mask. It all fit, no problem. The weight of it didn't bother me - and nobody else ever had to lift it.

I just got the DSS bolt-on weight plates and I'm thinking they'll let me dive in the Caribbean with no additional weight at all. That should be pretty darn sweet! And, again, I don't care if my carry-on has 14 pounds worth of plate and bolt-on weights in it.



This was exactly the idea I had when I started reading this thread! I have a 30 # wing, which (hopefully) will be good when I'm diving close to home in colder water. But, when I was diving off Coz last month, I definitely would have rather had the 17 # wing that DSS recommended to me.

I was thinking a simple zipper around the outside of the wing, like some suit cases have, that would let it expand an inch or two. When zipped down to the smaller size, there would be no loose material flapping around because it would be contained inside the wing. When unzipped, well, obviously, there would be no extra material flopping around.

And, worst case, if the zipper fails while diving, it just means you now have a wing with more lift than you need. I think I'm going to call Tobin and ask him about this.

Highland tank bands....they have a steel buckle and don't have to be unthreaded to remove your wing. I wouldn't bother with the zipper myself, just keep an eye out for a smaller wing. Or, sell the 30# and get a UTD alpha/delta wing. It's 37# lbs and can be cinched tight and streamlined to 20# lbs. but it requires an STA, but it cinches and expands without removal.....


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[halocline]

I would like to try a plate that is designed for single tank diving.

The first backplate I ever bought was dead flat, for single tank use only, made by a company called jetharness. It worked great, and I'm surprised someone else hasn't jumped on that design.

But the best thing I know of currently available for single tank use is the freedom plate made by Eric on this forum. If you haven't tried one of those, do so and you'll be in for a treat. I use the oxycheq 18 lb wing with mine, it's a fantastic set up for warm water single tank diving.

 

[stuartv]

I was thinking a simple zipper around the outside of the wing, like some suit cases have, that would let it expand an inch or two. When zipped down to the smaller size, there would be no loose material flapping around because it would be contained inside the wing. When unzipped, well, obviously, there would be no extra material flopping around.

And, worst case, if the zipper fails while diving, it just means you now have a wing with more lift than you need. I think I'm going to call Tobin and ask him about this.

Well, I should have known better than to call Tobin. I called him after I bought my DSS BP/W setup used. At that time, he told me I needed a different size BP, a different size and type of wing, and sounded pissed off at me the whole time because I was calling him when I didn't buy it from him and because I had the wrong size stuff (which worked fine in Mexico, BTW).

When I called today, I started off by asking him about the hardware I need to attach the bolt-on weight plates I just got (again, used, and which did not come with the mounting bolts). This time, he sounded even more pissed at me, even though I was calling to BUY the bolts I need, not just get the specs.

And then when I got around to asking "have you thought about making a Torus wing with a zipper around...", that was as far as I got into my question before he cut me off and said, curtly, "we're already making everything we've thought of."

And on both occasions he asked me my height and weight and what type of diving I was planning and then proceeded to tell me (in a very annoyed tone of voice) that he can't answer questions about how my rig would work (first time, because I had the "wrong" size BP and wing and, the second time, because I didn't know the buoyancy on my 7mm suit) when I DIDN'T EVEN ASK him a question! And wasn't going to ask him the question he was "answering". Today, I was trying to ask him about stacking the two sets of weight plates I have, so I could find out if it's okay to do that (from a mechanical/functional perspective) and what length mounting bolts I would need. He cut me off at the start with "if you don't know the buoyancy of your suit, I can't answer any questions about that!" At that point, I just said "okay, thank you for the information you've given me. I won't take up any more of your time. Goodbye." And I hung up. Geez!

There are some features of my DSS BPW setup that seem to be unique and that I really like. I.e. I don't know of any other BP that has the rubber inserts in the strap holes to protect the webbing from bare steel edges and without having to use a separate webbing sleeve. Nor do I know of another BP that offers the bolt-on weights like what DSS does. And I don't know of any other wing that lets you remove/replace without unthreading "traditional" cam bands. But, dang! Talking to the owner of DSS on the phone kind of makes me want to sell my rig and get another brand, just to ensure I never need to call them again.

Anyway....

If anybody finds out about a wing manufacturer making a 17 - 20 # wing that unzips around the perimeter and expands to have 30 - 35# of lift, please let me know!

---------- Post added January 19th, 2015 at 05:40 PM ----------

Highland tank bands....they have a steel buckle and don't have to be unthreaded to remove your wing. I wouldn't bother with the zipper myself, just keep an eye out for a smaller wing. Or, sell the 30# and get a UTD alpha/delta wing. It's 37# lbs and can be cinched tight and streamlined to 20# lbs. but it requires an STA, but it cinches and expands without removal....

Yeah, I don't really want to spend money on tank bands when the ones I have work fine....

And I just looked up the UTD A/D wing. The picture looks odd and there are none of it in use or showing what it looks like in the various states of different lift amounts. But, it does look odd and EXPENSIVE. That plus requiring an STA means I'll probably just keep an eye out for an actual DSS Torus 17# wing. It'll go on/off without messing with cam bands, so probably quicker than switching the A/D wing from min lift to max lift.

Those side "wings" on the UTD wing just look... well, I don't understand how that's supposed to work. And the one picture is not very convincing of having a nice, streamlined profile when in 20# lift mode.

---------- Post added January 19th, 2015 at 06:03 PM ----------

I just looked at the Alpha/Delta and Alpha/Delta PRO on the UTD website. I don't see anything on their about cinching either one down to limit lift to 20 pounds...?

 

[decompression]

Hey Stuart, sorry about your bad experience with Tobin, I've always had great service. Here are some pics of the UTD wing. Near the waist belt is a 2" elastic webbing that at full extension (both sides) gives the wing full lift, when cinched tight, the lift is reduced. It's quite streamlined to begin with and more so when cinched. Notice in the picture the large triglide is first away and then close to the D ring. The rig on the left is BM and the right is SM.
Max lift is 37# and min is around #20. The HOG wing (SM) is 43# for comparison.
The wing by itself is $449. Pricey, but for me, it's 3 wings in one; a cold water wing, a warm water wing and a side mount wing for warm and cold. Normally those would be about $1000 so worth it. Especially for my stock $$ as I only need 1/3 of the wings for my students/rentals.


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