Bungee types - again ;)

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

there are no conspiracy theories. you do not know the situation of why they are currently sold out. Ask your buddy HP why he can't get any more of them? It sure as hell isn't because of lack of production capacity.
 
I asked you how you know how many they sold.
Rough estimates are not a secret.
HP would not tell you exact numbers perhaps, but he or Steve might have even have told in an interview.
Personnally I could easily guess those numbers as the Razor is only recently sold in more than one location in Germany.
 
Of course they do not sell the parts to build your own cheaper without the Razor logos on it.
Gosidemount used to do that... it was probably before you found them on youtube.
 
there are no conspiracy theories. you do not know the situation of why they are currently sold out. Ask your buddy HP why he can't get any more of them? It sure as hell isn't because of lack of production capacity.
HP is not my buddy.

He probably would not even tell me if he was. He can be very secretive, most cave divers, explorers and especially videografers I meet are, to some degree.
As a very curious person I tend to get the information I need but avoid knowing too much to have to shoot :wink:
They know I respect their privacy and do not talk about any real secrets, ever. :acclaim:

Regarding rarity to the Razor:
It is because of one simple reason and I am sure my guess is correct: They do not order enough made. :wink:
Why? I couldn't guess, but I think it is because the small company they have simply cannot afford larger or more regular production runs.
 
Gosidemount used to do that... it was probably before you found them on youtube.
No, they did not sell the parts cheap than either. :wink:
Probably how it all started: they needed 10-20 sets themselves and 100 or 500 where offered much cheaper per part, so they set up a shop to sell the surplus.
 
Last edited:
A friend of mine makes his own copy and his are actually cheaper than that and of much higher material cost than the Razor plates, quality is at least on the same level and the edges are much smoother for the soft webbing he prefers.
If you're talking about the guy from this 'Sidemount Schmiede' place, of course he can make it cheaper. He just copied the design and didn't pay for CE testing, did he?
Technically that would not be legal but saves a lot of money.
 
... 'Sidemount Schmiede' place, ...
If you have to bring his name into a discussion...
Yes, that's him. One of the best I met training at rec level and rec rates.

When I first met him he was diving a Transpac and I saw him in several other systems later, Kamaleont, Diamond, you name it.
Most of those he used for a long time, more or less 'destroyed' all of them.
He even dove with my second Razor for a few weeks when I did not dare to use it because of a damaged (and badly repaired overnight) wing.

To him all the commercial systems weren't adequate, even my beloved Razor.
He is more of an individualist than me and much more self sufficient.

He was one of those that already tried to have their own basic education using sidemount and where laughed at then.
Now, If you want to do that, just go to him, he is teaching nowadays and could be an instructor for any agency he chooses and is for some.
He isn't cheap either, but he normally works at rec instructor rates.

Technically that would not be legal but saves a lot of money.
'Technically' it is completely 'legal'.
He does not sell anything (or only some of the rare parts). His system is a rough concept he dives himself, not a product and two will rarely look alike.
He just recommends ways to others to build their own sidemount systems from scratch.
Several others did something similar here on scubaboard, other forums, blogs or facebook.

I personally have some moral issues with that, but friendship always requires some tolerance and I cannot force others to buy what I would.
Especially not people with their own experience of a few dozen or hundred sidemount dives, I give recommendations, often with drastic warnings and examples where required, then I help them with implementing or testing their own ideas.
When someone tells me he wants to do trimix dives in just a harness without a wing I tell him why he shouldn't and why I would myself die trying.
That is often sufficient to make them think twice and that seems enough most of the time to make rather competent decisions, from what I am observing.

Build your own systems will probably be seen even more often as people progress.
This area of Germany is full of dive shops but most struggle to sell any jacket for more than 250 or sometimes 350 Euros.
Tec divers have a lot of expensive equipment, but here many get most of it from ebay cheap.
Having tanks checked and certified is frowned upon by many tec divers here because it costs a few euros ever few years and they fill themselves anyway.

Rec divers here will problably never dive Razor systems at a rate of more then 1:1000.
In my opinion all the other systems are not significantly cheaper, to really save money you have to build your own.
 
Last edited:
To him all the commercial systems weren't adequate, even my beloved Razor.
He is more of an individualist than me and much more self sufficient.
His rig looks like a Razor copy to me. What's better about his?

'Technically' it is completely 'legal'.
No, it's not. He does or did offer the BC part on this website. BCs need to be CE certified to be sold in Europe. It doesn't matter if you have to put it together yourself... what counts is what the product is intended to do. That think of his needs to be tested according to DIN EN 1908, there is not way around it.
And PLEASE let's not discuss DIN EN standards here, I know this for a fact.

He was one of those that already tried to have their own basic education using sidemount and where laughed at then.
Now, If you want to do that, just go to him, he is teaching nowadays and could be an instructor for any agency he chooses and is for some.
Razor, I was already diving sidemount before you guys, I already told you that.
 
...He just copied the design and didn't pay for CE testing, did he?....
and btw: He did not copy the design anymore than XDeep, DirZone, Hollis, Apeks, Agir and others did.
Much less in my opinion.

Like the Agir system he also changed some things significantly. Uses different and thicker and more rounded plates for example and is made to be used with a very soft crotch-strap.
He also makes his own weight pouches for the harness for soft weights and easy removal, as he dives himself without a lot of lead most of the time and has to give additional weight to other divers after entering the water very often.
He also uses a very small wing more similar to an XDeep wing but fixed to the harness and with the dump valve in a more logical position and a bit more bulky when filled to maximum capacity of 20 liters.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

Back
Top Bottom