Can't afford video so going with DSLR opinions

[RonFrank]

I agree with Larry. If you are looking for a budget camera the Oly E410 is a heck of a good camera for the money.

If you are looking for a system that you want to commit to, than the Nikon or Canon is a better choice over the long run.

I shot a Nikon D40x not too long ago, and while it's a great shooting camera, the ergonomics really bothered me. In M mode, one has to go to the menu to control aperture.. IMO a HUGE problem UW. The lack of a top LCD also was very annoying, and the lack of ISO control outside of the menu UW is also a big issue. If the OLY has similar issues, IMO I would not even consider it for UW shooting where one is shooting in M mode the majority of the time.

If all three cameras have similar issues, then go with the one that fits your budget. I would likely get the D80 with much nicer controls assuming the OLY and Canon have similar issues as the D40x.

Confusing, is it not!

 

[alcina]

If all three cameras have similar issues, then go with the one that fits your budget. I would likely get the D80 with much nicer controls assuming the OLY and Canon have similar issues as the D40x.

I don't want to sidetrack here, but I'm confused on "similar issues"? AFAIK the canon models allow pretty easy access to all that you need without having to dig through menus. The 400D is a fabulous camera both on land and underwater if you're not looking to drop a grand+ on a body.

 

[RonFrank]

I don't want to sidetrack here, but I'm confused on "similar issues"? AFAIK the canon models allow pretty easy access to all that you need without having to dig through menus. The 400D is a fabulous camera both on land and underwater if you're not looking to drop a grand+ on a body.

IMO having to go into a menu option on the Nikon D40x to control the aperture in M mode is a significant problem when shooting in M mode UW. I certainly would not want to have to do so vs. just using a command dial. I'm not familiar with the other camera's even if I could spend some time researching this (not at this time! ).

Most Nikon camera's don't have this issue, but the lower end camera's do. What I was ATTEMPTING to say, is that I don't know exactly how the Canon Rebel, or Oly work.

Another thought is that I only played around with this camera for a couple of hours. Maybe one can customize the function, or maybe it's there, and I did not see it, but it has only one wheel (as opposed to the two on my D200).

Edit: I stand corrected.. after looking at DP Review the D40x does allow aperture control without a menu option as follows:

In this mode you select the aperture and the shutter speed from any combination of the above (plus BULB for shutter speed, apertures limited by the lens used). Use the command dial on its own for shutter speed or combine with the exposure compensation button to set aperture. The meter on the viewfinder status bar (and information display) immediately reflect the exposure level compared to the calculated ideal exposure, if it's outside of +/- 2 EV the indicator bar will add an arrow '<' or '>' on the end of the meter.

Not a very intuitive option, and this will mean to set the aperture in M mode one has to depress the exposure compensation button while moving the command dial which is a two handed operation. Still better than a menu option.

 

[alcina]

That's what I thought you meant, but the Canons at least don't have this quirk AFAIK so just didn't want anyone to get confused thinking the stuff re the Nikon applied

I haven't held an Oly yet, but have had hands on with all of the Canon players - not a dud in the group, so if you're headed to Canon grab one that suits your budget and, if you can, get into a store and lay hands on them...there's a significant difference and this might be a factor, too.

 

[RonFrank]

That's what I thought you meant, but the Canons at least don't have this quirk AFAIK so just didn't want anyone to get confused thinking the stuff re the Nikon applied

I haven't held an Oly yet, but have had hands on with all of the Canon players - not a dud in the group, so if you're headed to Canon grab one that suits your budget and, if you can, get into a store and lay hands on them...there's a significant difference and this might be a factor, too.

You are correct! IMO the Canon D400 has the edge here over both Nikon and Oly. I just reviewed the Oly E410 specs, and they also use the exposure compensation to change aperture.

To be clear, IMO having easy control over aperture and shutter is essential especially when shooting UW. Topside, this is less of an issue, but UW, we are dealing with a housing, and there is the task loading factor.

When shooting both the Nikon D40X, and the Oly 410 one must depress the exposure compensation button, and then set the command dial while the button is depressed to control aperture settings. IMO this is a poor design for UW shooting, so Kudos to the Canon D400 in this reguard.

If I were choosing a lower end camera for UW shooting, Canon would get the nod just for this alone. To give this some weight, I'm a life long Nikon shooter, but I am not foolish enough to suggest that just because I shoot Nikon that every camera they make is the best choice. :no

 

[alcina]

Hehehe... to make searching for cameras easier - Nikons are Dsomethings; Canons are somethingDs where "something(s)" are digits Coz the rest of the stuff isn't confusing enough!

 

[regul8r]

Thanks for all the input guys. I knew I could count on you all for excellent information.
ce4jesus the pictures in your gallery? How many of them were taken with a E410?
Are you using a strobe? Or did you take any of them with just the built in flash?
Are you familiar with the Oly housings? If so how difficult are they to attach a strobe to?
All new stuff to me since the P&S didn't have those options
I'm seeing that I can pick up a 410 with just the 14-42 lens probably for 250-300 which seems like a decent price for a good starter camera.

 

[RonFrank]

Hehehe... to make searching for cameras easier - Nikons are Dsomethings; Canons are somethingDs where "something(s)" are digits Coz the rest of the stuff isn't confusing enough!

Yeah, you have a D1, and the 1D (Granted the 1D is defunct)! Canon has made in MUCH more clear with names like the 1Ds Mark III vs. the ID Mark III. What is the difference? A LOT but you would never know it by the name.

Lenses are even more better! ED, IF, VR, IS, IF, USM, AFS, HSM, DG, APO.. the list goes on. I'm not sure which is sadder, the names, or the fact that I actually know what all these acronyms mean! :11:

I use DPReview a lot for a reference. They have a nice list of camera's by manufacture even if they don't have reviews for them all.

 

[peterbj7]

I don't really understand the basis for this question. Video and stills are so different it seems strange to choose between them on the basis of price. In any case, as someone has already pointed out you can get into u/w video quite cheaply. I have both u/w video and stills, and they serve totally different needs. I rarely go diving without a compact digital stills camera, costing maybe $500 unless I'm going video shooting, in which case the whole dive is dedicated to the video. Otherwise you shoot crap and you needn't have bothered in the first place.

You'd be amazed how good results you can get with a good compact, and what rubbish an expensive DSLR can give. U/W photography is far more to do with technique and user precision than it is to expensive equipment. Some of my best pictures have been with a $400 setup.


Remember that any housing is liable to flood, and as a dive center owner I can say I've seen it happen depressingly frequently. It's happened to me or close friends several times. Don't take down anything you're not prepared to write off, and don't spend so much up front that you can't afford to replace it. Forget insurance - few people succeed with claims for flooded cameras, regardless of what the policy says.

I use an SLR on land but no way would I ever take it underwater. The benefits over a good compact just don't justify hazarding $5k+.

 

[RonFrank]

You'd be amazed how good results you can get with a good compact, and what rubbish an expensive DSLR can give. U/W photography is far more to do with technique and user precision than it is to expensive equipment. Some of my best pictures have been with a $400 setup.

Put a DLSR in the hands of someone who knows how to use it, and the results will ALWAYS be better VS that same photographer using a compact camera. Why? To start with shutter lag, vastly superior focusing, and chip size. I have NEVER seen GREAT images out of a compact camera at ISO's over 200. This is just the tip of the iceberg.

Photography is an equipment based art. Skill is certainly a very key factor, but there is a reason why most professional shooters both topside, and UW are using DSLR's.

Remember that any housing is liable to flood. Don't take down anything you're not prepared to write off, and don't spend so much up front that you can't afford to replace it. Forget insurance - few people succeed with claims for flooded cameras, regardless of what the policy says.

I can not speak for the insurance that one can get in Belize, but you are dead wrong about claims in the USA. I bank on insurance, and won't dive my DSLR without it. I know of many photographers who have had their equipment replaced by DEPP, DAN, or personal articles policies through other agencies. My buddy had a BC replaced last year, no questions asked. He replaced an old Balance worth about $100 with a $400 Stiletto because his personal articles policy insured his items at new replacement costs (as does mine). If I lost my D1x, I'd get a new D3.