Certifying children

[ScubaGypsy]

I have never been a fan of certifying young divers for a variety of reasons.

Sorry but you are not the scuba police and have overlooked the true value of a young person being certified and subsequently growing up and diving with their parent(s). I would not trade the experiences that I have had diving with my 3 sons that were certified when they were 13, 11 and 10 respectively and that was over 11 years ago.

I remain much more concerned diving with older folks who seldom dive, are out of shape but yet are know it alls.

If you do not wish to certify your own children so young or dive with younger children then that is your prerogative but do not tell anyone else how to parent their children or live their lives.

 

[DandyDon]

Sorry but you are not the scuba police...

No, but he was worked too many death reports.

 

[ScubaGypsy]

No, but he was worked too many death reports.

Then how sad and jaded that he has not seen the more overwhelming positive influence and growth of so many children into adults who now have a beautiful lifelong appreciation for our undersea environments that they can pass on within their own generation as well as the next.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Then how sad and jaded that he has not seen the more overwhelming positive influence and growth of so many children into adults who now have a beautiful lifelong appreciation for our undersea environments that they can pass on within their own generation as well as the next.

I bet you didn't have a parent die while you were young.

Each of us has our biases as a result of our experiences. I try to read the posts here with the idea that the poster may be looking at the issue through different glasses than another poster.

 

[packrat12]

I really do not feel that this thread is appropriate for this but I also feel I must comment. We do not wrap children in bubble wrap and nor should we wrap ourselves. In 1984, the minimum age for Open Water , not Jr, was 12. Now it is supervised until 15. My child learned at 11 and has had 4+ years of supervised diving with her parents. She has an appreciation for diving and will carry it on, especially in a sport that is struggling to survive. If I take this sport to be 'dangerous' then where are all the other people commenting that children should be shielded, commenting that the current training standard which they ARE teaching is too minimal and only can teach limited rote skills! A couple of dry days and a couple of dives DO NOT make a diver and bluntly, make a hazard until they develop the necessary skills, adult or child/youth. If I take this sport to be 'hazardous' then I will say that I want my child to develop skills with my supervision and responsibility and not turned loose at a rote level by the current training machine.

As for shielding a child/youth from seeing their parent(s) die, this happens all the time. I was recently in an car accident that had potential to be very deadly although ended up having no injuries. My child could have lost both of her parents at once. What about the adults riding motorcycles? What about other sports/hobbies. Do we not go outside, do anything and just sit on a couch? Death is a part of life. Unless you can provide statistics that show an undue rate of serious accidents on children/youth, there is no justification to limit them. If we do, lets make sure to end Youth Baseball as they could get hit by it, Youth Football as we know concussions are a serious issue, any youth sport for that matter. They all present risks to a youth. Then we also need to end all hobbies that could possibly seriously injure/kill an adult who is a parent. This is a ridiculous argument but it also shows that the argument against child/youth diving is also ridiculous. If you do not want your child/youth participating, don't. If you do not want to instruct it, don't. But also look at how you are instructing and notice that the current methods produce rote divers at best who often lack even basic buoyancy control let alone better than rote skills anywhere else.

For the divers involved, this used to be a favorite dive of mine in my youth (16yrs no supervision). It has elevated risks and should not be taken lightly. I have not read any detail as to the accident that could lead to any direct conclusion. I feel for the son. It is a terrible loss. Without further information I/we cannot ascertain the cause of this accident. Lets not lose sight of the fact that the real purpose of the thread is to notify the community of the accident and pass support to those involved.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Scuba is a purely optional, leisure activity that can be adjusted to suit a diver's ability. How analogous various activities are to one another depends on the circumstances in which each individual dive, hike, or whatever, is conducted. The circumstances dictate the level of physical skill and mental maturity required. Again, what I say should not be interpreted as relating to this particular incident since we do not yet know the facts. But I don't think the issue of a young diver diving with a parent would even have been raised here had the incident occurred on a shallow coral reef.

 

[Basking Ridge Diver]

But I don't think the issue of a young diver diving with a parent would even have been raised here had the incident occurred on a shallow coral reef.

Not so sure - it may be a worthwhile discussion for a young diver to hear - it does not need to be doom and gloom but a conversation about the dangers and risks involved in diving if those discussions have not been had - this may be a thread to cause a few discussions (only you know the maturity and level of discussion appropriate for your child). But this could be a good thing as a matter of fact.

I want folks to think - he passed doing what he loved and while he was living life... Not - Oh his buddy (child) could not save him what a poor kid and what an idiot...

 

[Ken Kurtis]

Then how sad and jaded that he has not seen the more overwhelming positive influence and growth of so many children into adults who now have a beautiful lifelong appreciation for our undersea environments that they can pass on within their own generation as well as the next.

Jeez Louise people, learn how to read what I said and stop injecting your own spin into things.

I am neither sad nor jaded but I am the Forensic Consultant for the L.A. County Coroner for scuba fatalities so, as Don pointed out, I've been privvy to the details of a number of deaths. So I've seen things and my opinions and perspective are going to be different from yours (as Lorenzoid pointed out generically).

I am not the Scuba Police (nor did I ever remotely make as assertion of such) but am simply pointing out that there are issues involved here that, in my 35 years of teaching people how to dive, parents don't think about. Your kid, your choice. You are welcome to make decisions I wouldn't and vice-versa.

In addition to the incident I mentioned in #3, I've also seen a family torn apart when their 14-year-old son died while diving with his father a week after certification essentially because he couldn't clear his mask, embolized, and died. So while you're welcome to think whatever you want and emphasize or ignore whatever facts you'd like to, I'm not making this stuff up out of thin air and my opinions come from what I've seen in real-life scenarios.

And while I think there's an interesting discussion to be had about what the minimum cert age should be, this thread probably isn't the place to have that discussion. So we should either move all of these comments to their own thread &/or stop hijacking this one. My originial comment was simply meant to be a garnish to the discussion, not the main course.

- Ken

 

[wgw04024]

Ah. Ok, makes sense. I still don't think I'd ever leave my kid on the boat and dive solo. Dive another day solo, or bring him with me. I don't fear diving solo, I've done it a couple of times in terrible vis losing a buddy, or during a OW checkout that I went with and was looking for an article why the students did their thing. That being said, I consider it risky all and all. And unless I'm going to pick up some gold bullion, or diamonds, or something like that, it probably can wait.

 

[nimoh]

Ah. Ok, makes sense. I still don't think I'd ever leave my kid on the boat and dive solo. Dive another day solo, or bring him with me. I don't fear diving solo, I've done it a couple of times in terrible vis losing a buddy, or during a OW checkout that I went with and was looking for an article why the students did their thing. That being said, I consider it risky all and all. And unless I'm going to pick up some gold bullion, or diamonds, or something like that, it probably can wait.

maybe he dropped his watch, and went down to retrieve it?