Certifying children

[dumpsterDiver]

....

Now I'm not saying we should never certify young people (although I still think 10 years old is nuts) and some youth are better-equipped than others emotionally/maturity-wise to deal with it. But it's something that always should be considered when taking a youngster diving. What's the long-term effect if something happens to YOU?



- Ken

I too think that 10 yrs old is too young for a vast majority of kids - of course I had MY boys scuba diving in open water with me at 8 and 9 yrs old. By the time they were 10 they had many dives and the OW course was a breeze for them.

However, the question about worrying about my own death and the effect it might have on my children... Let's put this in perspective.. My child will fair much better if my heart attack comes on an open water dive rather than a drive to Walmart (where the child is a helpless passenger). I don't expect that witnessing the death of a parent will be easy on any child, but that is NOT something I am worried enough about to stop diving with them.

The practical response to this issue is to make DAMN SURE (to the best of your ability) that the child will survive your heart attack underwater. My children's training has been rigorous enough to make me confident that they can get to the surface. I've taken my 15 yr old to 130 feet, 40 miles from shore - just the two of us diving and I would not do it if I thought he couldn't make it to the top without me.

I always make the kids wear a pony bottle, even at 9 yrs old (unless it is 12 ft deep or something). Ensuring that they get excellent training, can dive independently enough to manage an open water ascent AND a simultaneous complete scuba failure makes a lot more sense to me than worrying about long term effects of an extremely unlikely event.

If you don't like children diving - then there are many reasons to support the idea..but psychological impacts from witnessing a parental death during a dive are way, way out there in my book.

 

[TMHeimer]

The question posed is "What's the long term effect if something happens to (me)"? My step daughters are grown and never did scuba. I could die anytime, as could their mother. What can you do. What could you do if they were 10-15 years old? As we are specifically talking diving here, I don't think the comments about the required age is a completely separate issue. If I were diving with a 12 year old child of mine and got myself into trouble, he may very well forget his training (OW divers--adult or child-- are NOT trained in the vast majority of rescue techniques--with MOST agencies), not "save" me, and blame himself for my death. I have taught probably thousands of kids age 10-12 (and hundreds 12-18) and I wouldn't want to see any of them taking on the responsibility of diving safely for themselves or a buddy. Maybe age 16 is OK, since we allow them to drive (with a lot of places now having "graduated" licenses, etc.). I know scuba can be very beneficial to a 10 year old, and kids vary regarding maturity. I never got in trouble at that age in school and always got good grades, an athlete, etc.--No way I would want 10 year old me on scuba.

 

[drrich2]

In addition to football & skiing, many kids wrestle (backyard style, without protective gear), in rural areas lots of kids have guns & hunt (if you're responsible enough to handle a loaded rifle or shot gun, that would suggest some capability for being trusted with serious matters), and especially in really rural areas, zip around on 4-wheelers & motor cycles, so in all fairness let's be mindful many kids do 'drive.' On devices that may be more dangerous than cars, under conditions much rougher than the typical smooth paved city street (e.g.: 'mud riding,' wheelies & jumps, dirt roads, etc…). I climbed trees as a kid, got high up in them. Didn't have a buddy or protective gear. And lots of kids aren't exactly responsible with their unsupervised use of fireworks.

I look around at little kids riding little bicycles with helmets, elbow & knee pads, and think I would have been a laughing stock if I'd worn that getup when I was a kid.

So, how dangerous is scuba diving for minors compared to the other things they do?

How safe is safe enough?

Richard.

 

[freewillie]

I have never been a fan of certifying young divers for a variety of reasons. Granted, the kid here is 16, but the general point still applies. Whenever I bring up the youth issue to the parent, the response is almost always, "Oh don't worry, I'll aways be with him and make sure that nothing happens." And I say, "That's not my concern. My concern is what happens to the child if something happens to YOU. How will they deal with that?" And the universal answer almost always is, "Oh . . . I hadn't thought of it that way."

Now I'm not saying we should never certify young people (although I still think 10 years old is nuts) and some youth are better-equipped than others emotionally/maturity-wise to deal with it. But it's something that always should be considered when taking a youngster diving. What's the long-term effect if something happens to YOU?

We had a fatality out here in L.A. where a teenager was diving with his over-weight (300-pounds) father and the father had a heart attack underwater. The kid brought the father to the surface next to the boat and screamed for help. The father didn't make it but you certainly couldn't say the kid didn't do everything he could to try to save his dad. Nonetheless, he sat in a corner of the boat and said, "I killed my father." Desite everyone saying, "Absolutely not," that's something that's going to haunt him - and I suspect the 16-year-old in this incident - for the rest of his life.

- Ken

I suspect the answer to the question lies in the mercurial nature of the answer to most questions regarding training and certifying children. It depends on the child.

Full disclosure in that I have 17 year old daughter who has been certified since age 13 while on a family vacation. She did the discover scuba that was offered at the resort and fell in love with scuba. She begged and begged to get certified. Actually, she didn't have to beg that hard (but I did make the appearances of playing hard by saying no at first) since as a certified diver I could certainly see why she was enamored with the sport. I asked and was allowed to follow along during their discover dive. I noticed that while she and her best friend were going up the ascent line at the end of the dive my daughter started making this sweeping motion with her arms and hand in front of her mouth. She was reminding her friend to breath - as in remember not to hold your breath. I intuitively knew that she got the dangers of diving and that if you don't do it right bad things can happen to your health.

I would not give up any of the experiences I've had with my daughter diving. We are able to share a very special and unique bond let alone have some great one on one time. How many teenagers are willing to spend time with their old man. I will take the time when I can get it.

On the other hand, her 10 old brother will not be certifying anytime soon. I agree that 10 is way too young. We've done snuba and I'm fine keeping his underwater experiences to glorified snorkeling. I will add though that the first time we went snuba he kept sculling his hands like beginners tend to do. I thought he was a little underweighted but he was actually keeping himself off the coral. So even at 10 he has a fundamental knowledge that you shouldn't stand on the coral. But he'll have to wait until high school to certify. There is no rush.

As for children witnessing their parent's death - is there really a difference if they witness them dying from a scuba accident or any other accident for that matter. What if you saw your Dad get hit by a car riding a bike? Or ski into a tree? Or simply collapse in the kitchen from a heart attack? The real answer is that it depends on the child. Some will deal with it better than others, others will carry the scars for much longer. None of them regardless of the activity will ever forget that moment.

It will also be dependent upon how we as parents teach our kids about life in general. To this day I keep saying that you never know when you might step off a curb tomorrow and get hit by a bus. That's my Dad talking. He told us this at the dinner table growing up almost every day, if not once a week. What he wanted to teach me and my brothers is that you should not go through life living woulda shoulda coulda. If you want to do something then make up your mind and do it. Because you never know when you might get hit by that bus. And because of that I have a philosophy of life that you just keep moving forward and take the good and the bad as it comes. You can't plan for bad things that might happen and you can't avoid having bad things happen. In fact, the more you try and control you life so nothing bad happens you won't take any chances and you'll make yourself neurotic because they'll happen anyways.

So I'm trying to teach my kids similar philosophies. And I'm trying to get them to be as independent as their ages allow. I tell them Daddy may not always be here. I have no plans to check out and leave but we never really know when the good Lord calls us and our time is up. In the meantime at least for my kids I want them to go out and enjoy life and not be afraid to take chances. Including scuba and skiing.

 

[TMHeimer]

In addition to football & skiing, many kids wrestle (backyard style, without protective gear), in rural areas lots of kids have guns & hunt (if you're responsible enough to handle a loaded rifle or shot gun, that would suggest some capability for being trusted with serious matters), and especially in really rural areas, zip around on 4-wheelers & motor cycles, so in all fairness let's be mindful many kids do 'drive.' On devices that may be more dangerous than cars, under conditions much rougher than the typical smooth paved city street (e.g.: 'mud riding,' wheelies & jumps, dirt roads, etc&#8230. I climbed trees as a kid, got high up in them. Didn't have a buddy or protective gear. And lots of kids aren't exactly responsible with their unsupervised use of fireworks.

I look around at little kids riding little bicycles with helmets, elbow & knee pads, and think I would have been a laughing stock if I'd worn that getup when I was a kid.

So, how dangerous is scuba diving for minors compared to the other things they do?

How safe is safe enough?

Richard.

I do agree about all those other things kids do that are dangereous, sometimes unprotected. Lord knows we all did that stuff. I think there are certain activities that add a serious level of danger. Scuba: can't breathe water. Sky diving: One mishap, no recovery/2nd chances. The toughest ski hills: too fast--what's wrong with something easier? But as you say--how safe is safe enough? Everyone has a view.