PADI / SSI Junior Open Water Theory

[johndiver999]

If the child is good in the water and is really motivated to get certified, then where is the issue?

The material is not that difficult and the child will be HIGHLY motivated to learn some physics, applied math, some anatomy, physiology, some oceanography and maybe a little biology and ecology. If he is successful he will also develop some personal responsibility and discipline and the respect for natural consequences may one day save his life. So what if he struggles, this is an incredibly valuable opportunity for the child to learn!

 

[lowwall]

I don't see the problem. My son got certified at 12. It was a PADI course and he did the e-learning. There's no time limit on the e-learning sections. I was in the room with him while he went through it and helped with anything he needed an extra explanation for.

If he can't grasp the grasp the fairly minimal amount of information needed to make it through the e-learning with whatever help you can provide, then he's really not mentally ready to take on the responsibility of scuba. Nature isn't going to give anyone a break just because they are young.

 

[GDHLEWIS]

I don't see the problem. My son got certified at 12. It was a PADI course and he did the e-learning. There's no time limit on the e-learning sections. I was in the room with him while he went through it and helped with anything he needed an extra explanation for.

If he can't grasp the grasp the fairly minimal amount of information needed to make it through the e-learning with whatever help you can provide, then he's really not mentally ready to take on the responsibility of scuba. Nature isn't going to give anyone a break just because they are young.

Bit of a simplistic look at things in my view. Let's take out my child side of things here. so its neutral discussion. Many children out there suffer with varying abilities due to areas outside of their control, ADHD, dyslexia and many in between (my child has none of these by the way). Now does that mean because children / young persons who are afflicted with these learning difficulties are stupid? No it means they learn differently in the same way that children learn differently to adults. When you have a child with learning difficulties any half competent teacher / school / institution will alter their teaching strategy to adjust to that individual.
So my question is why do the Agencies not train their instructors to do the same when dealing with Children / young persons.

10 Tips For Teaching Kids To Dive - DIVER magazine

Words By Margo Peyton Every child moves at his/her own pace. While these tips can help you teach children to dive, individuality is much more important than when teaching adults diving. Photo courtesy: Kids Sea CampI’m sure you had a teacher you can easily think of, who you loved and who...

divermag.com

This article noted my an earlier response to this thread even says it. So why is nothing done about it. Makes you wonder how many possible divers have been failed or discouraged over the years because Instructors at no fault of their own are not trained with the knowledge to deal with instructing younger minds.

Now Ill bring my child in to the equation, I know he is mentally ready for the responsibility of diving and being a dive buddy. Every time I come from a dive or before I start a dive he will tell me to be careful, remind me not to take needless risks and go as far to remind me I'm only trained for X,Y or Z. He fundamentally knows there are limits and we must dive within our training and limits. He knows that he cannot just shoot to the bottom or shoot to the top, he has a slight understanding on gas physics from balloon vids online and similar. BUT even though I would be comfortable to have my child dive, I know I could not just leave him with the majority of the Instructors I see around...SIMPLEY because they are not equipped to instruct children properly. I know of only 2 Instructors I have come across where I live who understand this. I am thankful for a few Instructors who admitted to me they cant deal with Kids and will not instruct them as they know they do not have the knowledge to train younger children under 16. I am not arguing if a child is not ready, they are not ready. I certainly would never push my child to do something he doesn't want to or is not ready to do. My interest is in the fact that the diving industry has not cottoned on to this lack of suitable knowledge in instructing children, I'm not taking a swipe and individuals but at the industry, they are missing a trick in my view

 

[GDHLEWIS]

If the child is good in the water and is really motivated to get certified, then where is the issue?

The material is not that difficult and the child will be HIGHLY motivated to learn some physics, applied math, some anatomy, physiology, some oceanography and maybe a little biology and ecology. If he is successful he will also develop some personal responsibility and discipline and the respect for natural consequences may one day save his life. So what if he struggles, this is an incredibly valuable opportunity for the child to learn!

The material may not be difficult, but education and learning is not so black and white

 

[johndiver999]

The material may not be difficult, but education and learning is not so black and white

The standards are not that difficult. If the child can not understand any of the important concepts, then it will not be safe for them to dive.

10 years old is VERY young to learn to scuba dive. Personally, I think that most 10 yr olds are no where near ready to dive. Even 13 is young, especially for very small children simply due to the weight of the gear.

If the child can not assimilate the required information, then it is probably better to wait until the child is older and stronger and more mature. However, if a child is good in the water and is motivated, then I think it would be a shame not to pursue the challenge with whatever resources can be used. Good Luck!

 

[GDHLEWIS]

The standards are not that difficult. If the child can not understand any of the important concepts, then it will not be safe for them to dive.

10 years old is VERY young to learn to scuba dive. Personally, I think that most 10 yr olds are no where near ready to dive. Even 13 is young, especially for very small children simply due to the weight of the gear.

If the child can not assimilate the required information, then it is probably better to wait until the child is older and stronger and more mature. However, if a child is good in the water and is motivated, then I think it would be a shame not to pursue the challenge with whatever resources can be used. Good Luck!

Thanks the child is literally counting the days down till he is 10 just so he can start. So gives the wife and I a few months to start teaching him the basics and figuring out how best to approach it all

 

[lowwall]

Bit of a simplistic look at things in my view. Let's take out my child side of things here. so its neutral discussion. Many children out there suffer with varying abilities due to areas outside of their control, ADHD, dyslexia and many in between (my child has none of these by the way). Now does that mean because children / young persons who are afflicted with these learning difficulties are stupid? No it means they learn differently in the same way that children learn differently to adults. When you have a child with learning difficulties any half competent teacher / school / institution will alter their teaching strategy to adjust to that individual.
So my question is why do the Agencies not train their instructors to do the same when dealing with Children / young persons.

Have you looked at the e-learning courses? They keep things slow and simple. If your child can't grasp something, then don't press the next page button. You now have all the time you need to explain it differently or find a YouTube video or anything else that works.

Again, what's the problem? Do you really expect agencies to build multiple curricula to deal with this tiny percentage of potential divers? Use the e-learning material as a jumping off point and fill in the gaps on your own. The material is not hard.

IMO, it's a bad idea to let kids that young dive anyway. My daughter turns 10 in 3 weeks. She would have no issues getting through the e-learning and doing the course skills, but that does not mean she is physically or emotionally mature enough to deal with problems underwater. I've seen her fall apart when she gets stressed.

And that's what you need to keep in mind. Nearly anyone who can physically keep the reg in his or her mouth can dive when everything is going right. It's what happens when you get a couple of stressors that really matter. Outside of medical events, almost all serious injuries and fatalities in diving were avoidable if the diver hadn't panicked at some point. Why would you put them at that risk?

 

[GDHLEWIS]

Have you looked at the e-learning courses? They keep things slow and simple. If your child can't grasp something, then don't press the next page button. You now have all the time you need to explain it differently or find a YouTube video or anything else that works.

Again, what's the problem? Do you really expect agencies to build multiple curricula to deal with this tiny percentage of potential divers? Use the e-learning material as a jumping off point and fill in the gaps on your own. The material is not hard.

IMO, it's a bad idea to let kids that young dive anyway. My daughter turns 10 in 3 weeks. She would have no issues getting through the e-learning and doing the course skills, but that does not mean she is physically or emotionally mature enough to deal with problems underwater. I've seen her fall apart when she gets stressed.

And that's what you need to keep in mind. Nearly anyone who can physically keep the reg in his or her mouth can dive when everything is going right. It's what happens when you get a couple of stressors that really matter. Outside of medical events, almost all serious injuries and fatalities in diving were avoidable if the diver hadn't panicked at some point. Why would you put them at that risk

I expect nothing, just commented its odd that this has not been thought of by the various Agencies. As noted in my earlier comments in this thread how my wife and I plan to deal with our Childs learning in this regard. So wont waste more time rewording it.
In regards to risk, my Kid, my responsibility as he will only dive with myself and a very select few people who I dive with regularly. I know my Kids abilities and seen him deal with stressors and feel fine with him undertaking a risky hobby such as ours. Hell he has sat down and watched things like Dave's Not Coming Back (Wife wasn't impressed with this Ill admit hehehe) and surprised me with his observations of things when watching it.

 

[lowwall]

I think you should go through the materials before passing judgement. They may not have built it specifically for 10 year-olds, but they do try to account for different learning styles and present the information in multiple ways. From my memory, they covered visual, auditory and reading/writing. Kinesthetic isn't particularly suited to online presentations, but you can supplement that at home.

 

[GDHLEWIS]

I think you should go through the materials before passing judgement. They may not have built it specifically for 10 year-olds, but they do try to account for different learning styles and present the information in multiple ways. From my memory, they covered visual, auditory and reading/writing. Kinesthetic isn't particularly suited to online presentations, but you can supplement that at home

During this course of todays conversation I managed to get access to a friends Kids course materials (PADI). No different from the adults materials. So had my wife looking at it all now...initial comments were not encouraging to say the least. But Ill let her review it all and see (really not holding my breath though). At the very least she will be able to develop a strategy for our child.
Your not wrong on that some of the learning techniques are just not possible / suited for the tinterweb. Which is why Im also interviewing instructors as I had said earlier. Im not blind to the fact that you cannot please or cater for every single persons. I know Ill be approaching my local BSAC Club and emailing the central BSAC HQ to see what their views are based on my quick observations.
Now need to convince my Wife to help my BSAC branch reword the course materials and train the Instructors on how to deal with younger persons, if they are willing to accept it...time will soon tell.
Also not blind to the fact that financially it makes little difference if the younger people fail the course as the agency has already taken the money. So there is very little incentive for any of the business / financial based agencies to change the existing strategy.
lowwall thanks for the objective views, made for an interesting conversation. In the end all I want is more younger persons to be diving when they are ready, as we all know its a wonderous world under those waves and I just feel too many kids do not get the chance to experience it. A little more effort from some of these Agencies and Clubs is all that's needed and just maybe more younger people will be diving, and less moping about on phones and tablets