Chuuk/Truk on the SS Thorfinn in two weeks -- Any Advice?

[jjoeldm]

I've read what reviews I could find about the SS Thorfinn on the 'net and there seems to be a wide array of opinions about the Thorfinn and its crusty captain, Lance.

About an equal number said:

A) The Thorfinn is a roach hotel and Lance runs it like a dictator and is not very responsive to guests needs and requests and the food is low-grade TV-Dinner.

And . . .

B) The Thorfinn is one of the best liveaboards in the world, the Capt'n and crew took good care of us and the food was good and plentiful.

All agreed that the diving was outstanding and being on a liveaboard is the "way to go" though there was some disagreement about which liveaboard diving style was best.

--The Odyssey seems to be the Mercedes of the bunch, luxurious and professional, but with some restrictions on diving profiles. Despite its size it moors over a specific wreck and can put all of its divers onto the same wreck at the same time.

--The Aggressor, based on reviews I've read is the most restrictive as to profile but otherwise its a typical Aggressor boat with all the same amenities of a modern liveaboard. Smaller than either the Odyssey or the Thorfinn. It also moors over a specific wreck and can put all of its divers onto the same wreck at the same time.

--The Thorfinn seems to be the Mack Truck of the group. Rough around the edges, but servicable, big and stable. It has the longest history of the three and the most knowledgeable staff when it comes to diving the wrecks. It also has no real restrictions about depth and number of dives, other than those dictated (I hope) by safety -- of course my safety is my business no matter where I dive. It also has the most choices in the way of dive gases and gear. It also is NOT a traditional liveaboard and does not have the comforts of a liveaboard although it is spacious. It has no dive deck, but puts divers into small aluminum open boats that take up to 6 divers to the various sites. It stays moored in one place usually, maybe moving (if at all) once during the week to another part of the lagoon. While not a traditional liveaboard dive operation, the "chase boat" method seems to have the virtue of putting fewer divers on specific wrecks. Other Pacific liveaboards use this method to good effect.

So I have some questions:

Since I'm booked on the Thorfinn, what should I expect? I do plan on doing the deeper wrecks. I'm an experienced tech & cave diver with many deco dives. I'm bringing the regs and gear to sling a second bottle rather than rent the doubles there (sort of a poor-man's sidemount rig) and an O2 reg. I'm interested in penetrating some of the wrecks, though not very far. I have very little experience wreck diving and none doing what I would call "tech" wreck diving. I'm sure the folks on the Thorfinn will have lots of advice in these areas on where to dive, how to approach it and so on.

How professional would you say the crew and divemasters are? Do they already have lines run into the interior compartments of the ships? Or do they take a "progressive penetration" approach? And how safe do they appear to be about doing penetrations with guests?

What wrecks should I definitely do? Are there any dives that I should consider or request that aren't on wrecks? What should I avoid? Is there any advice for how best to approach the Thorfinn and its (some say) "prickly" captain?

Finally, how clean is the Thorfinn and its staterooms and bathrooms and showers? Should I bring some Clorox/Raid? : )

Bottom line, I'm there for the diving, but I also like clean, professional, safe and well-run. How does the Thorfinn score in each of these areas, say 1-10? And would you return to the Thorfinn and would you advise others to?

I'm already booked on the SS Thorfinn, BTW, so I hope the answers are all positive! I have communicated back and forth with Cap'n Lance and he seems to have a good if dry sense of humor, so I'm encouraged. I have overall a good impression about the dive experience I will have, but am wondering about the particulars.

JoeL

 

[TheNitroxinator]

I was on the Thorfinn at the end of January. My buddy and I were the only 2 divers on the boat at the time - that was great in my opinion, it meant that we were the only 2 that were kicking up silt.

It also has no real restrictions about depth and number of dives, other than those dictated (I hope) by safety

Captain Lance's rules on safety stops were to do 3 minutes at 60', 3 minutes at 30', followed by 10 minutes at 15' on every dive (well, unless it was under 60'). On the deeper dives, this really is a necessity, you will be approaching decompression limits on every one of them. Make sure to watch your computer.

I'm interested in penetrating some of the wrecks, though not very far. I have very little experience wreck diving and none doing what I would call "tech" wreck diving.

The guides will take you as far you are willing to go. My guide had so much experience, he knew the wrecks inside and out. If you don't want to go where the guide is taking you, you may need to be proactive about signaling this; they are expecting you to follow them. The guides are just that - guides. They are not divemasters, although our guide had been trained through Rescue diver. There are NO guide lines - you just go in and follow the guide. I've done penetrations with a reel, I have to admit this is much simpler, but it IS far more dangerous. You will definitely be outside of the 130 linear feet to the surface rule, unless you cut the penetration short.

What wrecks should I definitely do?

Definitely the Fujikawa, day and night. Also the Kensho, again day and night. Both have outstanding soft corals. The Fujikawa is better, in terms of the engine room and the forward holds with the zeros. The Yamagiri engine room with the skull is pretty cool. The Sankisan was another one of my favorites. I dove about 15 different wrecks, they were all excellent dives The advantage of the Thorfinn is you'll get a chance to dive a wide variety. They take you to a different boat on every dive. And the captain will accomodate special requests.

Finally, how clean is the Thorfinn and its staterooms and bathrooms and showers?

For a liveaboard, the rooms on the Thorfinn are actually quite nice. They kept them clean, I certainly didn't feel a need to have clorox, and raid is completely unnecessary, I didn't see bugs in my room. The problem was the towels on the skiffs; they were always a bit oily. This bothered me a little, it bothered my buddy a lot.

And would you return to the Thorfinn and would you advise others to?

I would go back to the Thorfinn. I'd want to know what prospective divers expect before I'd advise them to go to the Thorfinn. The skiffs were a touch on the adventurous side. Other than that, I didn't have any problems. My buddy was a bit disappointed with the food, but his general diet from what I've seen consists of eating about 50% fruit, and I think he prefers more exotic fruits. The food won't be exotic or 5 star, but it will fill you up. Rooms are good for a liveaboard, but they are subpar if you compare them with what you'd get in a land-based hotel.

BTW, I realize I didn't give any 1-10 numbers. I think comments are better, you should draw your conclusions from the comments.

 

[jjoeldm]

The guides will take you as far you are willing to go. My guide had so much experience, he knew the wrecks inside and out. If you don't want to go where the guide is taking you, you may need to be proactive about signaling this; they are expecting you to follow them. The guides are just that - guides. They are not divemasters, although our guide had been trained through Rescue diver. There are NO guide lines - you just go in and follow the guide. I've done penetrations with a reel, I have to admit this is much simpler, but it IS far more dangerous. You will definitely be outside of the 130 linear feet to the surface rule, unless you cut the penetration short.

"Definitely" further in than 130' and no lines? I guess I can see why they do it, they know the wrecks so well, but if you're a couple of decks in and down a couple of gangways, it seems like you're deep into a "trust me" dive. Just how far would you say you were from light and if somehow you lost your guide did you feel like you could find your way out alone? Was there ever a time when you said, "Jeez! No way I could find my way out from here!"

I've done penetrations with a reel, I have to admit this is much simpler, but it IS far more dangerous.

Why did you feel it was more dangerous to run a line? The time? The potential tangles? The silt? Do you mean that you tried running a line into a wreck in Truk or somewhere else? How much in the way of "dangly" stuff did you see on your penetration dives? Wire, loose parts, line & etc. Did you and your guide keep mostly to holds and short passages or were there some tight passages to negotiate? Are you experienced/trained in overhead environments?

How did you feel about the depth? Did you do the San Francisco Maru or any of the other deep wrecks? And how deep did you dive and did you penetrate at all on the deeper wrecks?

If you did dive on the deep wrecks, what was your profile? How about the rest of the day? Dives & profiles? One thing he promotes is being able to do the deep wrecks then go on and do 3 more dives later in the day at say, 130', 60' and 30'.

The advantage of the Thorfinn is you'll get a chance to dive a wide variety. They take you to a different boat on every dive. And the captain will accomodate special requests.

Sounds like what I'm looking for. There will be 6 other divers on the ship during my stay, then 8 more joining later in the week.

The skiffs were a touch on the adventurous side.

I've heard several references now to divers getting "bounced around" in the skiffs or having a rough ride. Is the water that rough in the lagoon or are they just uncomfortable?

The problem was the towels on the skiffs; they were always a bit oily. This bothered me a little, it bothered my buddy a lot.

Sounds like I should take a couple of towels! I can do rough if it's called for. But if they can keep the sheets clean ya gotta wonder what the deal is with the skiff towels!

Thanks for the heads-up! It's a great help. I was starting to have some concerns after I ran across a couple of pretty brutal reviews. But anyplace can get a bad review. Depends on the diver as much as the place sometimes.

Sounds like I have a pretty good idea of what to expect: OK food, clean, comfortable but not fancy rooms, spartan diving conditions in the boats, but outstanding diving and plenty of it with an experienced crew. That works for me . . . but it'd be nice if the food was really good though. : )

What was your impression of Cap'n Lance?

JoeL

BTW, did they have a DVD player in the lounge?

 

[jjoeldm]

I've done penetrations with a reel, I have to admit this is much simpler, but it IS far more dangerous. You will definitely be outside of the 130 linear feet to the surface rule, unless you cut the penetration short.

I just reread this. You're saying not running a line is more dangerous than running a line.

I'm slow, but I catch on. :-/

When I was being guided in Nahoch Nah Chich by a local guide we found ourselves pretty far in and on the far side of a couple of gaps in the line that the guide didn't fill. He was taking us on a circuit dive. After, my bud and I looked at each other and said, "Did you know where you were?"

That's the problem with guides. You spend all of your tech diving life making sure of your own technique and your own safety and then suddenly you hand it over to a complete stranger in a third-world country.

It's like those guides on Everest depicted by the book "Into Thin Air". The guides were the best there were, but the "best" guide doesn't help much if they're ultimately making bad decisions and you're not familiar enough with the circumstances to overrule them.

But I digress . . .

Thanks again,

JoeL

 

[TheNitroxinator]

I just reread this. You're saying not running a line is more dangerous than running a line.

I reread it, you're not slow, I'm just typing in my usual Nitroxinatorese. The Rosetta stone hasn't been invented for my native language yet. Given that diving without a reel is more dangerous, you might wonder why they don't do it. The problem is that they typically don't enter and exit from the same spot when they do penetrations. You would have to part with a lot of line to follow the guide's dive plan, and that would clutter up the wrecks pretty badly in short order. They could run permanent guidelines, but then they'd have the issue of unguided guests either going where they aren't experienced enough to go, or worse still, unguided guests deciding to take artifacts.

...it seems like you're deep into a "trust me" dive.

100% accurate. There were only a couple of dives where I didn't know where the exit was, but its not a good feeling when you are in a position where you don't know how to exit. Especially if you get your tank stuck, and watch your buddy and the guide's lights disappear while you're at 85' with a little over 1000 PSI left, and you're in the middle of the Fujikawa's engine room on your 2nd dive in Truk. Ah, well, I survived, no big deal.

And how deep did you dive and did you penetrate at all on the deeper wrecks?

The 3 deepest dives I did were the Hoki (John Deere tractors), the Unkai (gas masks and shoes), and the Nippo (the shallowest tank in the lagoon). I did not do decompression dives, so you can guess how long you get at 130+ feet (in fact, I don't think the guides will do a decompression dive). There really isn't time to do an engine room penetration, you just go into the holds on the deeper ships.

One thing he promotes is being able to do the deep wrecks then go on and do 3 more dives later in the day at say, 130', 60' and 30'

According to the divemaster, very few people do every possible dive - he said he remembered it being 3 people in the time he was there. If that was accurate, I was the 4th, I wound up doing 5 dives a day, with 3 on the last day due to the flight (my buddy missed one dive because of some indigestion). Captain Lance's statement is 100% accurate.

The skiffs were a touch on the adventurous side.

I've heard several references now to divers getting "bounced around" in the skiffs or having a rough ride.

Did you do the San Francisco Maru

The "adventurous side" goes far beyond being bounced around. The water is a bit choppy, and the guides will go full throttle, so that will bounce you around. But the waves themselves aren't really that big, the bouncing is more to do with the small size of the skiff. There's no cover or front windshield, though, so expet to get wet. You've probably heard that Captain Lance is a touch on the cheap side - it shows up in the skiffs. First, the Chuukese are not very good about maintenance - there were a couple of dives where we limped back to the mother ship because one of the motors wouldn't start. Before one dive, the pull motor strap broke off in the boathand's hand - we had to switch skiffs. The skiffs have no O2, no radio, and no GPS. On the last day, we were going to do the San Francisco. "Chuuk GPS" is based on the guides having landmarks on the islands, which they line up so they can find the mooring buoys. One of the landmarks was cut down (he was using a tree), so our guide couldn't find the mooring buoy. The reason for no "real GPS" or radios? According to Capt. Lance, the Chuukese wouldn't take care of them so they'd just break so why waste the time and money. Sadly, he's probably right.

You'll know you're in trouble on the skiff when you hear the boathand cursing "arikorn akarak" because the pull motor won't start (it apparently means f---ing dog - my buddy started repeating this at one point, the guide and boathand started lauging when he started bellowing it at the top of his lungs, and then they told him what it meant. The next day, the story was apparently related to the rest of the crew because they gave us a resounding sendoff of "Arikorn Akarak" on our first dive. The state department should have so much luck with relating to the Chuukese :icon10.

What was your impression of Cap'n Lance?

He's where he wants to be. Stay on his good side, and you'll have a lot of fun with him.

 

[padiscubapro]

I was very happy with the time I spent aboard the Thorfinn. I also never saw a bug on the entire trip.


Don't expect to do the deepest stuff right off the bat, before you are able to do the deepest stuff the staff will evauluate your skills.. Once they are confortable with you you'll have no problems.. I had many dives to 200fsw or deeper.. The only dive I wasn't able to dow was the Oite.. Without trimix the captain wasnt going to allow someone to do a 240+ dive.

I used my Inspiration and was catered two extensively.. The crew Carried my unit after every dive (unless I told them to leave it on the boat) up two decks to one of the camera stations which became mine for the duration of the trip. The other picture takes had to share the other bench.. They kept getting new bottles of o2 so I could get at least 1500psi oxygen fills (no booster) which is more than adequate for my CCR needs. I even had sorb shipped to the thorfin ahead of time which they picked up at the airport and stored for about a month.

I felt a bit unconfortable doing "trust me" dives at the beginning since I am very used to running llines when doing penetrations.. My concerns were quickly quelled once I saw how many exits there were.. The only dive I ran a line was when I did a deep penetration on the Aioku which I did Solo..

The "mandatory" stops the capt requires is a good thing, he doesn;t have anyone get bent on his boat.. The week I was there both the odyssey and agressor had people bent.

The thorfins two main gude remo and bedowin (I probably spelled their names wrong) have been with him well over 10 years and know every inch of the wrecks..

I was only doing 4 dives a day since I chose to do a deeper dive every day (at least 1 dive deeper than 160 every day).

 

[CABear]

Joel,

I stayed on the Thorfinn 15 months ago. I enjoyed it.

Yes, Lance runs a tight ship. What did bother me was the political discussions at the dinner table (I'm midlle of the road but opposed to the war in Iraq). Roach Motel?? NO! Comet cleanser?? NO! Meals were good but basic; I can't complain. Yes, the Thorfinn only moved once during the week, but there were 30 dive sites within 2-3 miles. We went into many interiors and Lance was basically accomodating including deep dives. I can't say much for the divemaster or safety. I would have to give them a D+ on the report card in this area. I think if you get into trouble in this part of the world, you're basically screwed anyway.

I would return and dive the Thorfinn again. Compared to the Agressor, I thought the Thorfinn was large and roomy. It had a (saltwater) jacuzzi and 3 decks. Lance is an experience captain and he is basically a great person. Some of his crew have been with him for 10 years.

 

[jjoeldm]

The problem is that they typically don't enter and exit from the same spot when they do penetrations. You would have to part with a lot of line to follow the guide's dive plan, and that would clutter up the wrecks pretty badly in short order. They could run permanent guidelines, but then they'd have the issue of unguided guests either going where they aren't experienced enough to go, or worse still, unguided guests deciding to take artifacts.

I can see the logic I guess. Although in caves they run lines just inside the system where they can only be seen by divers doing actual penetrations. You run a line to the mainline then remove it when you exit. I'm sure I'll have a different perpective on operations once I'm there, although as of now I'm inclined to want to run a line unless there is daylight showing me an exit. We'll see . . . .

You've probably heard that Captain Lance is a touch on the cheap side - it shows up in the skiffs. First, the Chuukese are not very good about maintenance - there were a couple of dives where we limped back to the mother ship because one of the motors wouldn't start. Before one dive, the pull motor strap broke off in the boathand's hand - we had to switch skiffs. The skiffs have no O2, no radio, and no GPS. On the last day, we were going to do the San Francisco. "Chuuk GPS" is based on the guides having landmarks on the islands, which they line up so they can find the mooring buoys. One of the landmarks was cut down (he was using a tree), so our guide couldn't find the mooring buoy. The reason for no "real GPS" or radios? According to Capt. Lance, the Chuukese wouldn't take care of them so they'd just break so why waste the time and money. Sadly, he's probably right.

You'll know you're in trouble on the skiff when you hear the boathand cursing "arikorn akarak" because the pull motor won't start (it apparently means f---ing dog - my buddy started repeating this at one point, the guide and boathand started lauging when he started bellowing it at the top of his lungs, and then they told him what it meant. The next day, the story was apparently related to the rest of the crew because they gave us a resounding sendoff of "Arikorn Akarak" on our first dive.


He's where he wants to be. Stay on his good side, and you'll have a lot of fun with him.

Thanks! "Arikorn Akarak" That may come in handy. : )

Looks like my concerns are largely unfounded so long as I'm not expecting a luxurious liveaboard experience. I'm not. I'm looking forward to a week of fun diving on a no-nonsense boat with some great wrecks to explore and that sounds like what I'll get.

That Captain Lance is a tad cheap is not surprising to me given my experience booking this trip and trying to nail him down on costs, but with a little prodding he revealed all (I hope).

The maintenance issues sound like a lot of places I have been diving around the world, so not all that surprising. All considered, I'm happy I booked with the SS Thorfinn.

I'll post a note about my experiences once I'm home.

I appreciate the time you took to respond to my concerns.

JoeL

 

[jjoeldm]

I was very happy with the time I spent aboard the Thorfinn. I also never saw a bug on the entire trip.


Don't expect to do the deepest stuff right off the bat, before you are able to do the deepest stuff the staff will evauluate your skills.. Once they are confortable with you you'll have no problems.. I had many dives to 200fsw or deeper.. The only dive I wasn't able to dow was the Oite.. Without trimix the captain wasnt going to allow someone to do a 240+ dive.

I used my Inspiration and was catered two extensively.. The crew Carried my unit after every dive (unless I told them to leave it on the boat) up two decks to one of the camera stations which became mine for the duration of the trip. The other picture takes had to share the other bench.. They kept getting new bottles of o2 so I could get at least 1500psi oxygen fills (no booster) which is more than adequate for my CCR needs. I even had sorb shipped to the thorfin ahead of time which they picked up at the airport and stored for about a month.

I felt a bit unconfortable doing "trust me" dives at the beginning since I am very used to running llines when doing penetrations.. My concerns were quickly quelled once I saw how many exits there were.. The only dive I ran a line was when I did a deep penetration on the Aioku which I did Solo..

The "mandatory" stops the capt requires is a good thing, he doesn;t have anyone get bent on his boat.. The week I was there both the odyssey and agressor had people bent.

The thorfins two main gude remo and bedowin (I probably spelled their names wrong) have been with him well over 10 years and know every inch of the wrecks..

I was only doing 4 dives a day since I chose to do a deeper dive every day (at least 1 dive deeper than 160 every day).

I considered setting up Trimix dives in advance, but as I'm alone on this trip it looked very problematic and I saw no mention of it on his website. I don't like the idea of diving to 200 fsw on air, so I'll probably keep it shallower than that, although I've done it many times in the past during my rebellious "youth". I'll probably keep it to 4 dives daily as well.

I may have to keep the Oite dive in mind for a future, Trimix excursion. Was there any reference to availability of Trimix on the Thorfinn or elsewhere in Truk? I remember reading somewhere that one or more operations had ceased 'mix operations there for some reason, probably cost.

Thanks for your comments,

JoeL

 

[jjoeldm]

Joel,

I stayed on the Thorfinn 15 months ago. I enjoyed it.

Yes, Lance runs a tight ship. What did bother me was the political discussions at the dinner table (I'm midlle of the road but opposed to the war in Iraq). Roach Motel?? NO! Comet cleanser?? NO! Meals were good but basic; I can't complain. Yes, the Thorfinn only moved once during the week, but there were 30 dive sites within 2-3 miles. We went into many interiors and Lance was basically accomodating including deep dives. I can't say much for the divemaster or safety. I would have to give them a D+ on the report card in this area. I think if you get into trouble in this part of the world, you're basically screwed anyway.

I would return and dive the Thorfinn again. Compared to the Agressor, I thought the Thorfinn was large and roomy. It had a (saltwater) jacuzzi and 3 decks. Lance is an experience captain and he is basically a great person. Some of his crew have been with him for 10 years.

It sounds like safety is largely your own concern, which is how it should be to some extent anyway. What are you referring to specifically when you say, "I can't say much for the divemaster or safety. I would have to give them a D+ on the report card in this area."? Anything I should look out for?

Political discussions, eh? I actually enjoy discussing politics. I wonder who the other 6 divers will be on the boat. Six divers during the first part of the week, then another eight during the last few days. If they're European it could get lively. If they're American Conservatives, it could get even livelier. If I get both, this could be fun! : )

That might add just the right spice to this trip . . . or not. I'm taking a couple of books and my iPod just in case.

I got the impression from my several emails back-and-forth to Captain Lance that he has a very dry, but good sense of humor. I look forward to meeting him.

Thanks for your comments, it's reassuring to hear from more than one diver that they had a good experience on the Thorfinn. I'm looking forward to everything but the four flights to get there.

JoeL