Collapse of the "Buddy System"

[Kharon]

BTW your calculations are correct unless you use 19 or 19.9 (Luxfer 19) for the pony... I did the same calculation but then thought - does it really matter - 750 is close enough... No OW newbie is going to care if it was 736 and small change - 750 is easier to remember and I thought do I really need to continue the quibble - - so I guess I do...
Don't even get me started on the RMV/SAC Rate... lol cause that would just throw this whole conversation into a tail spin...

ROFLMAO - yep. 750 was good for me. Just trying to be cute and really was wondering if my math was somehow off. If it was, I'd have liked to know.

---------- Post added October 22nd, 2014 at 09:22 AM ----------

Do you really believe you can resolve 14 PSI ? (and we're all assuming the cylinder started at 3000.00000 PSI)

Hell no - and when is the last time you got a rented cylinder that was 3K exactly?

 

[ev780]

Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an axe, hammer to fit and paint to match

LOVE THAT!!!!!! I am stealing that.

Resume thread.

 

[Bob DBF]

Do you really believe you can resolve 14 PSI ? (and we're all assuming the cylinder started at 3000.00000 PSI)

Not with any pressure gauge I've ever owned, with the small marks at 100#, I might guess within 25# and that assumes the gauge is perfectly accurate and my eyes are as well. I had one SPG that that decided that empty was around 200#, it worked OK for me 'till I replaced it, but I made sure it didn't get into anyone else's unsuspecting hands. The first time I noticed the issue was instructive.




Bob
-------------------------------
I may have been born at night, but it wasn't last night.

 

[Adobo]

If I have a choice of buddys ...

I am always puzzled about threads like this. Don't you always have a choice of buddies? If there is only one (or even none) available and that one is not ideal, you always have the choice not to dive, right?

I always felt that if I was diving with someone who just sucked as a dive buddy, it wouldn't be my dive buddy's fault. It would be my fault.

Even reading the premise of this thread is puzzling. If I was to draw an analogy, it would be this:

The OP gets a raggedy old tooth brush which is missing most of its bristles. Doesn't brush all of his teeth, doesn't use toothpaste and doesn't floss. Afterwards, he realizes he still has bad breath and food all over his teeth. Now his claim is that brushing your teeth is not an effective way to clean your teeth and prevent cavities.

 

[EFX]

To continue your analogy some posters switched to mouthwash (SD's) saying it's not worth the risk of going out and buying a new good toothbrush and toothpaste. Additionally, you have to spend effort in putting the right amount of toothpaste on the brush and brushing your teeth using the proper method.

A big concern is going on a dive charter alone where SD is not permitted. This is like paying $120 for a room at a hotel where they give you a toothbrush and paste. You cannot decide what kind of toothbrush you want or what kind of toothpaste. The toothbrush could be a nice new electric one or a used unwashed toothbrush with 90% of the bristles missing.

 

[Adobo]

To continue your analogy some posters switched to mouthwash (SD's) saying it's not worth the risk of going out and buying a new good toothbrush and toothpaste. Additionally, you have to spend effort in putting the right amount of toothpaste on the brush and brushing your teeth using the proper method.

A big concern is going on a dive charter alone where SD is not permitted. This is like paying $120 for a room at a hotel where they give you a toothbrush and paste. You cannot decide what kind of toothbrush you want or what kind of toothpaste. The toothbrush could be a nice new electric one or a used unwashed toothbrush with 90% of the bristles missing.

When traveling and diving off of charters away from home, I can appreciate that bringing a competent buddy is a challenge. That said, I always inquire about the availability of "competent" buddies whenever I travel to Hawaii, as an example. I've had pretty good success finding competent dive buddies in advance when going to Vancouver also. I am also confident in being able to find such dive buddies in Seattle, SoCal, Florida and parts of Mexico.

At home, I cultivate relationships with other divers and try to maintain a list of competent buddies. I usually coordinate with a competent buddy whenever signing up for a boat.

All that is to say, if I was insta-buddy diving with random/unknown divers when diving at home, again, it is my fault. And if such a dive went south, it would not be a failure or a collapse of the buddy system. It would be a failure on my part to properly plan a dive (which would include securing an appropriate buddy for the dive I want to do).

 

[TMHeimer]

I am always puzzled about threads like this. Don't you always have a choice of buddies? If there is only one (or even none) available and that one is not ideal, you always have the choice not to dive, right?

I always felt that if I was diving with someone who just sucked as a dive buddy, it wouldn't be my dive buddy's fault. It would be my fault.

Even reading the premise of this thread is puzzling. If I was to draw an analogy, it would be this:

The OP gets a raggedy old tooth brush which is missing most of its bristles. Doesn't brush all of his teeth, doesn't use toothpaste and doesn't floss. Afterwards, he realizes he still has bad breath and food all over his teeth. Now his claim is that brushing your teeth is not an effective way to clean your teeth and prevent cavities.

You live in N. California, where I assume you have a lot of buddies to choose from. As I mentioned way back, I live in the boonies of Nova Scotia (1 dive shop for MANY miles, and a round trip of 5 hours for me to buddy with someone near Halifax). So most of the time I dive solo close to home, and if I dive near Hfx. it may be with a random buddy (I don't like solo below 30', so I seek a buddy for this). As well, as a "single" diver on charters on the N. Gulf of Mexico the middle of winter, I take what I can get. Am lucky to find a boat going out then, much less a "choice" buddy on it. The alternative to these situations is simply not diving. I suppose I could choose that, as you say. My "dive count" may be "26-50" in my 9 years.

You are to be commended for your buddy selection procedures. I'm not whining about my situation, just stating the reality of it.

 

[Adobo]

You live in N. California, where I assume you have a lot of buddies to choose from. As I mentioned way back, I live in the boonies of Nova Scotia (1 dive shop for MANY miles, and a round trip of 5 hours for me to buddy with someone near Halifax). So most of the time I dive solo close to home, and if I dive near Hfx. it may be with a random buddy (I don't like solo below 30', so I seek a buddy for this). As well, as a "single" diver on charters on the N. Gulf of Mexico the middle of winter, I take what I can get. Am lucky to find a boat going out then, much less a "choice" buddy on it. The alternative to these situations is simply not diving. I suppose I could choose that, as you say. My "dive count" may be "26-50" in my 9 years.

You are to be commended for your buddy selection procedures. I'm not whining about my situation, just stating the reality of it.

Diving solo is yet another alternative. I can appreciate that for whatever reason, many people choose to (or maybe, have no choice but to) dive solo. That doesn't make buddy diving an inherently bad system. It's just not available to all divers at all times.

 

[The Chairman]

That doesn't make buddy diving an inherently bad system.

I can't agree with this enough. Just because you can't fix your car doesn't make car repair a "bad system".

 

[TMHeimer]

Diving solo is yet another alternative. I can appreciate that for whatever reason, many people choose to (or maybe, have no choice but to) dive solo. That doesn't make buddy diving an inherently bad system. It's just not available to all divers at all times.

Agree with you & NetDoc completely. Given a choice, I always prefer a buddy to solo--especially on deeper dives. On a deep (boat, etc.) dive I prefer ANY buddy to solo. Some will say it's more dangerous to dive with a questionable buddy than solo--ei: he may panic and cause you problems. It's comparable to saying seatbelts can at times cause death (drown, fire, etc.). Though I think the bad buddy risk is more than the death by belt risk, I will take my chances with any buddy and will wear my seatbelt. I think we all agree that especially on a boat, a good buddy is not always available. So you take who you get, try to be a good buddy yourself, and keep your own safety in mind. As you say, if you are uncomfortable with that and have checked it out beforehand, just don't sign up for the charter.
Back to the original question: I don't have personal knowledge of the dive scene prior to 2005, but my guess is the buddy system has not collapsed, nor has it improved since the beginning.