Completed AOW this weekend

[boulderjohn]

I am a career educator--a classroom teacher, a school administrator, a member of central administration, and the curriculum and instruction director of an online education program. I would like to compare this assault on instructor quality with the formal education system.

Every state in the U.S. has very similar requirements. To be a teacher, you have to complete college and teacher preparation program. You have to do internships and student teaching. You have to pass state teacher exams. Once hired, you are usually put into a supervised program designed to help new teachers. You are also in an evaluation system in which experienced and trained administrators examine the quality of your teaching on a regular basis, striving to help you improve or terminate you if you are not doing a good job. You are also required to complete additional training every few years in order to retain your certification.

All of this is many times beyond the best quality assurance program any scuba agency could ever hope to attain.

And yet we have crappy teachers everywhere.

I can assure you that every agency has crappy instructors. I can't see how it can be otherwise. They cannot hope to attain anything close to the level of training and supervision found in the public school systems, so how can you expect them to be any better than that?

If it makes you feel good to make a mindless and very trite bash on an agency, go ahead. If you believe that thinking and knowledgeable people are impressed by your rants, well...

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

#1 Upon completeing my OW course and getting "certified" I had all the confidence in the world. It was only with experience and luck that I eventually realized I shouldn't have been certified to begin with. But agency standards allowed it. Instructors fault? Now this becomes a moral question. BTW this was SDI, not PADI.

So then why make it an agency issue? Do you feel that SDI is as lacking as PADI? Or is it possible that you just chose crappy instructors both times?

#2 You indicated I might feel short changed. Quite the opposite. $200 bucks for a private AOW class? I don't know how the instructor pays the bills.

As I said ... you got what you paid for.

That said, after experiencing the course and it's dumbed down requirements I think it's safe to say that pretty much anyone with a couple dozen dives under there belt is already AOW by industry standards. AOW... nothing more than a gimmic giving newer divers a false sense of security and experienced divers wondering why PADI just didn't ask for the money and a dive log.

I've taught AOW to students with as many as a few hundred dives ... and have yet to hear any of them complain that the class wasn't beneficial. And I dive regularly with a significant percentage of my former students (I tend to groom dive buddies) so I think I'd know. The difference is that I expect a lot from my students, and won't certify someone if I think they're not putting into the class the effort required to meet my standards. In this respect, the industry ... or even my agency ... doesn't tell me how to teach. I think that's true of most instructors who are diligent, and who insist on offering a quality class.

Sorry your experience wasn't beneficial to you ... perhaps before signing up for your next class you should consider interviewing he instructor, and being interviewed in return, to determine that your goals are compatible. I insist on it with my students ... and probably turn down as many prospective students as I train, because the interview weeds out the ones who have crappy attitudes, or are just looking for a card ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[TSandM]

Malpaso, the only thing that's important is whether YOU felt that the class stretched your abilities appropriately, and brought you new learning and new skills. If it did, it doesn't matter where you started or what one of us would have thought of the class for ourselves . . . the class met the objective of a class, and it's completely appropriate to be happy about that, and share it with us.

I remember my first dives off a boat into choppy water. I was EXTREMELY nervous on the surface, until I figured out that my regulator was going to take care of me there, just like it did underwater. (It's getting BACK on the boat in those conditions where it can get hairy!) I can certainly understand your desire to do that dive with someone you trust as support. To learn, we all have to reach a little beyond where we are comfortable -- but there is nothing wrong with hedging your bets by optimizing everything ELSE you can.

 

[jmneill]

I don't believe the problem is with any given agency, the industry as a whole is obviously to blame. It's interesting to see the complacency of this fact on Scubaboard. Just a bunch of top notch instructors giving each other the thumbs up. I can't believe their isn't more action on the accident and incident thread than there is. Maybe I'm wrong about the whole thing and should go stick my head in the sand.

---------- Post added ----------

So then why make it an agency issue? Do you feel that SDI is as lacking as PADI? Or is it possible that you just chose crappy instructors both times?


As I said ... you got what you paid for.


I've taught AOW to students with as many as a few hundred dives ... and have yet to hear any of them complain that the class wasn't beneficial. And I dive regularly with a significant percentage of my former students (I tend to groom dive buddies) so I think I'd know. The difference is that I expect a lot from my students, and won't certify someone if I think they're not putting into the class the effort required to meet my standards. In this respect, the industry ... or even my agency ... doesn't tell me how to teach. I think that's true of most instructors who are diligent, and who insist on offering a quality class.

Sorry your experience wasn't beneficial to you ... perhaps before signing up for your next class you should consider interviewing he instructor, and being interviewed in return, to determine that your goals are compatible. I insist on it with my students ... and probably turn down as many prospective students as I train, because the interview weeds out the ones who have crappy attitudes, or are just looking for a card ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

You turn down as many students as you train? No way I'm buying that. Are there any other instructors on here that will step up and make this claim? And if you are turning down students that are getting the training for the card, well that would probably weed out closer to 90%

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I don't believe the problem is with any given agency, the industry as a whole is obviously to blame. It's interesting to see the complacency of this fact on Scubaboard. Just a bunch of top notch instructors giving each other the thumbs up. I can't believe their isn't more action on the accident and incident thread than there is. Maybe I'm wrong about the whole thing and should go stick my head in the sand.

... or maybe you should become an instructor and work to fix the problem. Complaining about it's easy, yanno.

Those of us who have responded to your rants do so because we're dedicated to just that ... fixing the problem. You can't change an industry ... because the nature of industry is to create products that people want to buy, and as long as people are making the industry successful by buying the product, it will continue to create supply for the demand. What we CAN do, however, is offer a quality alternative for those people who are motivated to seek it out.

Where we differ isn't due to complacency ... it's due to a better understanding of what we can and can't do ... and the fact that while you're sitting around complaining, we're doing what we can to address the issue of quality dive training. Some folks ... like Boulderjohn ... are, in fact, working with the agency to improve it. I'm taking a different approach by offering classes I feel qualify my students to dive in the challenging conditions they face here, and by spending time on ScubaBoard giving people like you enough information to be able to ask the right questions before signing up for that next class.

It's up to you whether you want to hear the message or argue with it ... as always, it gets back to that personal responsibility thing ...

You turn down as many students as you train? No way I'm buying that. Are there any other instructors on here that will step up and make this claim? And if you are turning down students that are getting the training for the card, well that would probably weed out closer to 90%

I don't find that to be the case at all ... most people who come to me for training are less interested in the card than in the skills. In fact, by far the most popular class I teach is a skills workshop that doesn't even come with a card.

But yes, in fact, I do end up not training quite a few of the people who contact me for training ... for a variety of reasons. Some are looking for cheap and quick ... I suggest a dive shop that's more compatible with their goals. Some want training in a time frame that I cannot provide ... I have a circle of quality instructors I can refer them to. Some don't respond well ... or at all ... to my interview questions and exchanges ... and so I don't accept them into the class.

That's the part you're not understanding ... dive instruction is a business transaction. I'm offering a product. It's up to me to decide the quality of that product. Because the quality of the deliverable is as dependent on the student as it is on me, I will weed out those students who I feel won't benefit from what I'm offering, and recommend alternatives that are more compatible with their goals. It's part of that interview process I mentioned earlier ... the part that's my responsibility.

If you're not prepared to live up to your responsibilities as a student, I don't want you ... because there are plenty of other people out there who will. In your case, based on your comments in this thread, I'd most likely recommend that you'd be happier taking your class from someone else ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[jmneill]

I hear your message, and if you are truley going the extra mile you have my utmost respect. And I understand that everyone wants cards and they want them fast. As for becoming an instructor, I have thought of it for years and only the possible inability to pay the bills has scared me away from it. It would be a dream come true if I could pull it off and land myself somewhere beautiful. I think that's grounds for a thread of it's own!

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I hear your message, and if you are truley going the extra mile you have my utmost respect. And I understand that everyone wants cards and they want them fast. As for becoming an instructor, I have thought of it for years and only the possible inability to pay the bills has scared me away from it.

There's a saying in this industry ... the best way to make a small fortune teaching scuba diving is to start out with a large fortune. The reality is that most scuba instructors get their bill-paying money from some other source.

It would be a dream come true if I could pull it off and land myself somewhere beautiful. I think that's grounds for a thread of it's own!

There's probably at least a hundred threads already on ScubaBoard on that very subject ... most started by people who just got OW certified and want to "live the dream". Those who eventually do go on to become instructors typically last about two years before they realize that "the dream" is an illusion.

You don't get into scuba instruction for the money or lifestyle ... you get into it because you love diving, you love teaching and/or you love helping other people. Those who survive beyond the initial couple of years will usually possess two or more of those qualities ... and even then it takes real effort and dedication to not burn out. People who burn out either end up teaching the type of class you complained about or they quit teaching/diving altogether. That's the reality behind the dream ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)