Computer only dives?

[Northeastwrecks]

Actually you wouldn't need to upgrade it any sooner than an SPG unless there is a new feature that you want, just like any other computer. They don't wear out.

And the additional info from the AI being right at your fingertips makes it great for interesting dives because you don't have to spend a lot of time fumbling around and making miscalculations in your head because it is all done for you.

Who is fumbling around?

If you can't keep a reasonable track of how much gas you've got left in your tank and use that information to determine how much time you've got left, you need more than a computer....

However, I'm sure that they are perfect for the u/w tourist from the "be back on the boat with 500 psi" school of gas management.

There are other issues as well. For example, you can a couple of bottom timers and a brass SPG to execute anything from a basic reef dive to a staged decompression dive with multiple blends.

AFAIK, AI computers, especially the ones being discussed in this thread, can't do that. Personally, I'd rather have the flexibility than the purportedly convenience, especially since the rationale you've used to justify their use would be better solved by training than by adding another piece of expensive, unnecessary technology.

 

[RICoder]

I dive AI only as well. If you have the $, go for it.

One note on it needing to be replaced every 5 years: I have a Cobra, and have for about 4 years now. Yeah, I'd like hoseless...and yeah, I like some of the newer models, but it is not the type of tech that advances and thus causes older models to be obsolete (such as PC tech). Just my oppinion on it.

Features I'd seek out, if I were doing it today.
1) Manufacturer/reliability. Suunto, IMO, is the best, hands down. Uwatec is good too.
2) Quick release. I know people who've got 'em, and it's nice if you are the type who leave stuff at the LDS on vacation (which I do, except for my reg, but mostly because I cannot remove my computer)
3) User swapable battery...maybe. I had my Suunto replaced, took the LDS about 10 minutes. Thing is, I only did it after 3.5 years, and not because it was dead or dying, but because 3.5 years seemed like a long time for a battery

 

[RICoder]

Who is fumbling around?

If you can't keep a reasonable track of how much gas you've got left in your tank and use that information to determine how much time you've got left, you need more than a computer....

However, I'm sure that they are perfect for the u/w tourist from the "be back on the boat with 500 psi" school of gas management.

There are other issues as well. For example, you can a couple of bottom timers and a brass SPG to execute anything from a basic reef dive to a staged decompression dive with multiple blends.

AFAIK, AI computers, especially the ones being discussed in this thread, can't do that. Personally, I'd rather have the flexibility than the purportedly convenience, especially since the rationale you've used to justify their use would be better solved by training than by adding another piece of expensive, unnecessary technology.

Many of the new computers do mixed gas and deco dives. Personally, I don't use my computer on deco dives...so, I guess that might factor into whether a person buys one.

To the point of "be back on the boat with 500psi" commnet, I've been on several trips where they wouldn't let you do deep dives and/or restricted bottom time for people withOUT computers. Which seems odd...but maybe not.

BTW, there is a new SUUNTO D9, hoseless...integrated digital compass...deep stop model...multi-gas. Pretty sweet for the more technical types.

AND ONE MORE THING! (because I am feeling yappy)...
ALL Suunto models (and probably others, but I don't feel like googling) have "gauge only" modes so as to be used just like an SPG at depth.

 

[StSomewhere]

FWIW, most AI computers I've seen currently on the market display psi (or bar) all the time underwater. Its right there on my Cobra, not something I need to press any buttons to see. On the Aeris Atmos ai computer it displays tank pressure in its own little section. I wouldn't judge the current crop of computers based on how the old ones used to be.

Links for pics:
Aeris Atmos ai Air pressure is the bottom section.
Suunto Cobra Air pressure is lower left number.

 

[Groundhog246]

Yeah, I'd like hoseless...and yeah, I like some of the newer models, but it is not the type of tech that advances and thus causes older models to be obsolete (such as PC tech). Just my oppinion on it.

You're incorrect on that. Decompression algorithms continue to change (improve). As more and more data is generated and studied from such projects as DAN's Project Dive Exploration which collects dive profiles and DCS info.

Different makes and models of computer have different margins of safety built in (some use more conservative algorithms than others). None guarantee you won't bent. A friend got badly bent in Coz last Feb, even though she was well within the limits set by her computer. Spent several days doing chamber rides and an extra week on the island before she was allowed to fly and prohibited from diving for 6 months and no supposed to dive nitrox only on air tables.

 

[scubafanatic]

......well, I dive a 'hosed' Oceanic DataMax Pro Plus (with quick-disconnect) with Halcyon SPG 'backup'...........I don't trust the hoseless AI computers....I have witnessed too many problems with the radio transmitter computers. When diving doubles, or Y-valve equipped singles, the AI computer monitors the 'right' post, the SPG monitirs the left post.......giving me the ability to monitor gas pressure in the event of a valve shutdown......even on a recreational vacation, diving single AL80's, I'll use both the AI computer and the SPG, in the event of computer failure I'll at least have gas pressure backup, moreover, as Mov2vation observed, the SPG makes it very easy for a buddy diver to check your gas pressure.

Karl

 

[DamselDiver]

Recently there have been many stories circulating about people with heart valve defects being more susceptable to DCS while diving well within No Decompression Limits. Apparently all of the blood does not pass through the lungs for gas exchange and nitrogen levels increase much more rapidly than in healthy divers.

This is something to consider for someone with a known heart valve or shunt defect.

 

[RICoder]

You're incorrect on that. Decompression algorithms continue to change (improve). As more and more data is generated and studied from such projects as DAN's Project Dive Exploration which collects dive profiles and DCS info.

I see your point on the changes in algorithms, though RGBM isn't likely to change much in the next few years, and even if it does, I can see Suunto letting you send yours back for an update...but ok, like I said, I can see your point.

It does lead to a conversation on RGBM, which I'll get too next...

Different makes and models of computer have different margins of safety built in (some use more conservative algorithms than others). None guarantee you won't bent. A friend got badly bent in Coz last Feb, even though she was well within the limits set by her computer. Spent several days doing chamber rides and an extra week on the island before she was allowed to fly and prohibited from diving for 6 months and no supposed to dive nitrox only on air tables.

Are you saying she got bent BECAUSE of her computer? If you are not, ignore everything else I write. First, I'd have to know what computer it was...but if it was a Suunto, or some of the newer comps with an RGBM model, I don't buy it as anything other than an undeserved hit, which has nothing to do with the computer.

RGBM is inherently safer than table calculations, any research will show that to be the case. I'm not gonna get into the nitty gritty, but the suggestion that a computer cause someone to get bent kinda bugs me.

I'm truly sorry she got bent, and I mean no disrespect to her, however...Did she PLAN her dive before she hit the water or just hop in and figure the computer would let her know what to do? Seems this is a catch-22, either she did plan it, so the computer is superfluous to your argument, or she didn't plan it, so the computer is superfluous to your argument...

Anyhoo...I don't wanna rant TOO much in this thread...sorry your thread got hijacked Dutch...and to your point again: Research man...research. Check out the different companies and their respective deco models, and boards like this with people that use them.

 

[Groundhog246]

Naw, I'm saying it was an undeserved hit. She dove with a group and several others had nearly identical profiles. She was on an LDS organized trip and the shop owners downloaded her computer and went over the profiles looking for overfast ascents, missed safety stops, etc and nada.
What made the hit so bad, is she did another days diving after the first symptoms appeared before being taken to the clinic. She just put the mild symptoms down to being tired, etc. Even when they became worse, she didn't send herself off, she comented on feeling 'off' to someone else in the group, who ran and told staff at the shop they were diving with and one of the onwers came and checked her out. After about 60 seconds and 3 questions, they rushed her to the clinic and within 20 minutes she was in a chamber. If she hadn't been treated within the next few hours, she'd have likely suffered permanent injury and not be allowed to dive again.

Sorry for that rant, but the point is
A: Research your computer before you purchase.
B: Get one that suits your diving style and physical condition. (If you're a little older, as I am, and/or in less than peak physical condition, get one with a more conservative algorithm)
C: If you have even the slightest suspician you might be bent, SEE A DOCTOR! Just because the computer or tables say you're ok, does not mean you are.

 

[Diving Dutch]

Anyhoo...I don't wanna rant TOO much in this thread...sorry your thread got hijacked Dutch...and to your point again: Research man...research. Check out the different companies and their respective deco models, and boards like this with people that use them.

No problems. Sometimes the superfluous discussion can lead to related issues never thought of...