Computers & Tables

[Packhorse]

Haha, hey Z,

As eluded to earlier, my answer is often to let my computer go into deco mode. It doesn't bother me to do "extra" stop time since it's usually only a few minutes more, and I think it's a smarter profile. I hadn't thought of dialing up the O2...I might just peg it at 40% and spend all day down there!

Yeah I think i would rather do a few minutes deco than fool my comp into fooling me.

 

[scubatoys]

Wow Larry, I'm surprised. My previous post was in response to Gamehunter's questions, but after it posted I saw your reply. What surprises me is not your opinion, but how flippantly you make your case in a legitimate debate. If you're such a "rebel" I'm surprised you bother to use a computer at all. Do you also dive to 300' on air just because the navy tables say you can? I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming your response was written because you really are that annoyed by proponents of diving conservatively, and not because your shop sells Oceanic computers instead of Suunto. As you say, do what you think is right.

Oh, I have no problem with people diving conservatively. My intent was not to be "flippant"... perhaps I inserted a bit to much of a feeble attempt at a little humor with my points... So let me just highlight my key points...

All decompression theory is just that... theory. And without a doubt, the most tested theory has been the millions of dives done on Padi tables and the oceanic / aeris computers that licensed the DSAT modified algorithm (which the padi tables are based on). And historically and statistically is has proven to be a safe profile as most of the reported bends cases were said to have heavily contributing factors of dehydration or too fast ascent rates.

I don't do 300 foot dives... and really would not equate the danger of that profile to cutting of a mattress tag. I like to call myself an 80 cubed diver. 80 feet, 80 degrees and 80 foot vis. I'm a warm water, recreational diver. Yes, I've gone over 80... but really my personal limit these days is in the 100 foot range. I have no need to go deeper than that. And I make very slow ascents, do a few extra stops on the way up, etc... And I try not to push my computer to the limits. If I do hit the deco mark on my computer, I'll extend my stops and shallow profile at the end of the dive to move down my nitrogen levels before surfacing.

As far as advocating a more liberal computer because we sell them, I also sell the Mares RGBM, and the Tusa IQ800 which is even more conservative than the Suunto. I just see a lot of posts out on the board where people make the claim that this or that computer is "better" because it's more conservative - and I tried to point out that diving is a safe sport - but obviously there are risks involved and each person must choose what level of risk they want to take.

I see posts on this thread now that say take your conservative computer and cheat up the O2 level to make it more liberal. My feeling is I'd rather take a more liberal algorithm, one that has been tested and dived for years, and if I want to be more conservative, I'll simply back off my timing - with the oceanic / aeris computers, I can set an audible alarm to sound when I get within 5 minutes of my deco time, or 10, or when I get to the last dot of the yellow graph instead of waiting for it to hit the red at deco.

Depending on someones age, physical condition etc, I would always advocate when in doubt, back off your numbers. There is not much down there that you will not have a chance to see another dive or another day, but I feel diving with the most dived algorithm in the world is an acceptable profile for my diving, and I have taken it to those limits hundreds of times - but that is a choice. And as I get older, I am simply choosing to dive the same computer, and back off the time slightly.

If my previous comments offended... please accept my apologies, I was just trying to show what I feel is an acceptable flip side of the "conservative is better" coin.

I once had a piece of dive equipment that had a warning label on it: "To avoid scuba related injury or death - do not dive." I got a kick out of that one. That is the ultimate way to avoid DCS... don't dive. But with the stats I've seen, and the dives that I personally have done, I have come up with the system for me that I like - and hope everyone can find a comfort level with whatever profiles they choose to dive.

 

[Gamehunter]

I have realy enjoyed this post as it has taught me something about diving and that is it is our own personal choice as to how we want to dive. I am diving a very liberal computer at this time( Orca) along with a back up which is conservative(Stinger) and I like this choice to be able to make while I'm on my dive. I do believe what LArry says about the tables and how many dives have been safely done within them, otherwise I do not think we would still be taught these table in open water. I think that we all have to make choices that are best for ourselves and hope that we make the best educated choice we can make, one of the reasons for this post. In my first post I had stated that my LSD was pushing me towards the Suunto product which I can say I do like my stinger but it is primarly my backup. But I also like to be able to make the choice within the limits the tables if I choose to and the Suunto product does not allow me to do this. With this being said I will be going with the Oceanic product and against my LSD's recomendation, as that is all they sell is Suunto. I do try to give my LSD my business but they are very limited in what they sell and what they have in stock, but that will be another discussion.

 

[beezwax]

I see posts on this thread now that say take your conservative computer and cheat up the O2 level to make it more liberal. My feeling is I'd rather take a more liberal algorithm, one that has been tested and dived for years...

You do realize that was said in jest...? I guess the humor isn't going over well in this thread. Perhaps I completely missed the tone of your first post, but it did read pretty snippy to me. No matter, I also retract the sarcasm of my own reply.

With this being said I will be going with the Oceanic product and against my LSD's recomendation.

Let's go diving at the next GLWC meet-n-greet, I'll hover ten feet above you the whole time and we'll still be able to end the dive together!

 

[Gamehunter]

Let's go diving at the next GLWC meet-n-greet, I'll hover ten feet above you the whole time and we'll still be able to end the dive together![/QUOTE]

Beezwax not all diver profiles are set in a setting that allows for you to hover 10 feet over me, we should make the next meet in greet in the St Clair River under the Blue Water Bridge and we will see how well you hover over me. 80% of my diving has been done in this river and it does not allow for the luxury of hovering. That being said I do not think I want a computer that is telling me a conservitive time left for no decompression when I have other things as a current of 4 MPH and freighters overhead. So if you want to hover over me in my neck of the wood we will pick you up 2 mile down river after a 1/2 hour dive.eyebrow I do not want to seem critical here but current, diving wreck, diving and cave diving all have their own situatons and stresses to deal with and haveing a computer that is telling me to go up when I know I don't have to is not one that I feel like compounding other aspects of my diving with.

 

[beezwax]

Um, once again, that was a joke. The hovering thing. Like the thing about dialing up the O2. Not something I'd really do. But thanks for letting my know why that wouldn't work in a river, wreck, or cave! Maybe if it was a really big cave? Or a ship with big rooms?