Concerns on PADI open water course.

[detroit diver]

daylight once bubbled...
Bwerb.
The "Zealots" are prevalent and vocal. they have meticuliously studied the recommended texts and embraced the "leaders" guidance. They are as Uncle Pug refers to "newly minted" and . just like ex-smokers. reformed drunks or newborne christians, they have found "it" and the rest of us need to be enlightened. It is not unusual for folks to react in that fashion.
I'm not denigating DIR. I am commending their marketing strategy. I dive their Halcyon wings and use scout lights as my backups. Not because it is the recommended uniform, but because it is good gear. As CEO of Halycon and Extreme Exposures while being head of GUE, JJ deserves recognition for developing his business enterprise better than most. I am praising his team for capalitizing on a bundled solution. The product and services they are delivering to date are superb. The industry's sales are very slow if not severly depressed. I am very interested in how they are going to respond to the success of their program. A good example is the recent change in the DIRF class and requiring a "certian configuration". The real question is can they keep a high level of quality yet grow to meet the demand. I'm guessing that they will attempt to morp to a higher level of eliteism. Time will tell and the answer is dependent upon Revenue flow.
FWIW, I received a phone call today from the shop owner informing me that the family that was having so much problem during Open Water Cert was not certified and was brought back for remedial work. The owner said that my concerns caused everyone to rethink what was happening. The owner said that they don't want a reputation for turning out unsafe or poorly developed divers.
Larry

Larry,

I just re-entered this post after not looking at it for a while. I commend you on your original decision. Most would have taken the cheap and easy way.

It looks like what you did woke up someone at the shop. Congratulations for making a difference. I would only hope that more people would care enough to say no. It might have a positive effect on this industry. It will certainly have a positive effect on the family that needed to do more pool work, whether they realize it or not.

Jack

 

[raybo]

I've seen integrity defined as doing the right thing when nobody is watching.

The gist of a lot of the posts seem to go to that. I've been trying to implement the mentor thing in just about everything, not just diving. Someone once told me that you can't move up in an organization until you teach train your replacement. Not quite the same thng in diving, but sharing knowledge and teaching is a very rewarding thing.

I haven't been able to read as many of the threads recently as i used to , but it seems that a lot of the rhetoric has toned down a bit, and people have started to provide some very insigtful observation on the industry. I, for one, am glad to see that.

I just finished my Resuce cert a couple of months ago, and the LDS has been asking me to come along on their OW & AOW just to have another body & set of eyes. They 've sort of hinted they'd like me to get to DM, and I'm sure after that, instructor.

I'm not sure I can do that. And I'm not talking about being able to "pass". I'm talking about mitigating what I personally consider an adequate level of training to the level of the cerifying agency.

On the other hand, I do feel a bit of an obligation to try to help raise the bar. Sort of like voting. If you don't participate in the process, you really have no right to ***** about it.

Oh! BTW, that's a great profile photo detroitdiver!

 

[detroit diver]

Gee, thanks!

 

[Jut]

Jonathan once bubbled...
PADI o/w and the BSAC first step are not equivalents! Unfortunately I believe BSAC has been re-congifuring their courses becaause they are losing out to other agencies.

When I started diving I learnt in the UK but it was for a Red Sea hoiliday and I never thought I would take it further than may be once a year holiday diving - for this BSAC was at that time not a practicle option.

I soon realised that I was into this sport but also realised that PADI o/w would not be sufficient for UK diving so took further courses. The phrase horses for courses springs to mind.

Now not all BSAC's are created equal - did you know there was a BSAC Japan? From the little I have seen it has nothing to do with the traditional BSAC other than the name.....

If you have not received an instructor evaluation form from PADI I would contact their QA department - for one the instructor does not sound very professional (dissing other LDS) and for a second it sounds like some corners were defintely cut.

Jonathan

Thats really quite supprising although there were differences between the two courses i would have thought that PADI O/W and BSAC Ocean Diver were more or less equal.

And no i'm yet to recieve an instructor evaluation form from PADI, and yes corners WERE cut, for example in one of the videos were were told we would practice skin diving in the pool. we didn't. ditto for cramp removal.

 

[MrMojo]

Hi Jut,
I am a bit confused ,why are you doing PADI ow if you are already BSAC ocean diver. The course offered by BSAC and SAA in the UK is tailored for Uk waters and takes 6-8 months to become OW and includes from the out set FirstAid , Rescue and DSMB deployment which are all essential if diving off the UK coast.
I am with an SAA club and like BSAC they are finding it hard to get new members as no ones wants to take 6+ months to get qualified and rather take a week with PADI and then fly out to the Carib mostly doing referals. 90% of UK diving is Drysuit yet they put these students in an old semi's and expect them to jump into stoney cove which hardly gets above 15 oc .
As Johnathan mentioned i think BSAC and SAA are trying ways to restructure but this will probably only end up with the course being dumbed down and them excepting crossovers with out retraining.My SAA course book has only pictures of divers in horse collar ,so how old is that.

Regards,

MAL..

 

[steeldiver]

The intraduction of a diver certification card which was seen to standidize the indistry does present problems.Lets take a SCUBA
DIVER qualification .
you can do 3 scuba dives in tropical water,no wetsuit gloves etc.not encounter current, coldwater or shore entries and finish with anopenbook exam, in some agencies tables are not taught to entry level as they ere only allowed to dive to 18m.
MY students do 6 openwater dives ,1-2 days in the pool and as many hours of classroom sesions it takes to ready themselves
for the final exam.All 6 Ocean dives are shore dives and involve surface swims of more than 100m.all dives are done with full wetsuit,gloves booties and hoodies.Most dives are done in vis lower than 10m in temperatures lower than 15c.they encounter kelp,surge and currents.
When he qualifies His c/card will carry the same qualification as any other diver.
Thats why as dive leaders we call for log books an accurate logbook will seperate the divers from the duffers.

 

[The Chairman]

and their "Seal" approach to diving. That's why I never got certified in the 70s. I have seen many instructors of the present... masquarading as something they are not... experts. They might have the skills, but they lack the patience and demeanor to enable them to teach this sport. Then there are diver/instructors like Michael Brady and Walter... the cream of the crop. They walk the their talk and produce some gifted divers. They have done more to revolutionize diving instruction just by their example of REALLY doing it right. My hood is off to them!!! I know that I turn out better students just because I have dove with these two. Find a mentor and be a mentor. You really can make a difference.

 

[Jut]

MrMojo once bubbled...
Hi Jut,
I am a bit confused ,why are you doing PADI ow if you are already BSAC ocean diver. The course offered by BSAC and SAA in the UK is tailored for Uk waters and takes 6-8 months to become OW and includes from the out set FirstAid , Rescue and DSMB deployment which are all essential if diving off the UK coast.
I am with an SAA club and like BSAC they are finding it hard to get new members as no ones wants to take 6+ months to get qualified and rather take a week with PADI and then fly out to the Carib mostly doing referals. 90% of UK diving is Drysuit yet they put these students in an old semi's and expect them to jump into stoney cove which hardly gets above 15 oc .
As Johnathan mentioned i think BSAC and SAA are trying ways to restructure but this will probably only end up with the course being dumbed down and them excepting crossovers with out retraining.My SAA course book has only pictures of divers in horse collar ,so how old is that.

Regards,

MAL..

Hi there, well i took PADI open water as part of my degree, it makes up 10 credits and was more or less impossible for me to fail

 

[MrMojo]

Thanks jut,
It makes sense now
Keep with the BSAC they are one of the best for a solid UK training .
I hope your not trying to suggest it's impossible to fail a PADI course
Just out of interest what are you doing your degree in and what part of the Uk do you live.

Regards,

MAL..

 

[Jut]

MrMojo once bubbled...
Thanks jut,
It makes sense now
Keep with the BSAC they are one of the best for a solid UK training .
I hope your not trying to suggest it's impossible to fail a PADI course
Just out of interest what are you doing your degree in and what part of the Uk do you live.

Regards,

MAL..

BSc Marine Biology, portsmouth

And would *I* ever say that about PADI lol. comon he basically did the exam for us
I think im going to take things easy and make regular trips to horsea and log a few dives before going any further. Practise a few of my drills then when i feel the time is right actually aim to hit my 20m limit.