Confused about Narcosis...

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

Nitrogen narcosis affects people differently because not everybody is the same. The physiologies are not the same and the mind sets are not the same. However, if you go deep enough, narc will kick in. For some as early as 80-ft and for others as deep as 140-ft, or possibly slightly more. But if you go down deep enough and stay down long enough, you will get narced.

From personal experience, I do not "feel" narced until I hit at least around 110-ft. That doesn't mean that I'm not narced. I just don't "feel" narced until around 110-ft. I may be narced at 90-ft but not enough that I can't tell. But by the time I hit 110-ft, I can tell. It's like getting a slight buzz. However, there was this one time that I got the dark narc (instead of being giddy, you'd feel panicky) at around 90-ft while ascending from 130-ft where I had the regular happy narc. By the time I reached 70-ft, it was gone, just like that.
 
Nitrogen narcosis affects all divers regardless of their experience level. Some individuals are more prone to it than others, but that is based off of physiological differences not experience-based differences. I happen to be in the less susceptible category, when I was doing one of my deep cert dives my instructor had me do a slate of math problems at 120' and was highly surprised that I breezed through without any evidence of impaired thinking, but just because you are not overly susceptible to it does not mean that you will never wind up getting narced; other factors, such as conditioning, physical health, and diet, also come into play as well.

The important thing is to be aware of the symptoms which are comparable to becoming inebriated while consuming alcohol. This is where experience tends to play a bit of a role as more experienced divers often have a better idea of what to look out for.
 
I have an idea of what it feels like I guess. Now that I think back when I was giving hand signals to the DM at 138Ft. It seemed like I hesitated a second from what I was thinking to actually getting my hands to do it. So if 'they" (the infamous they) get narced on a lighter level it is ok for them to stay at that depth or continue further? I always thought that if you get narced you need to get out of there. If you can handle being slightly narced then it is ok....Sorry for the juvi questions. I am just getting a lot of different ideas from a lot of different people lately.

Also my instructor says that nitrox can actually be worse, which I guess i will do my own research and draw my own conclusion on that one.

Simm that is pretty cool with the math problems....

Thanks for the help so far on this.
 
Narcosis affects everyone when high PPN2 is reached. Sometimes it is not noticeable, other times the symptoms may be obvious and debilitating. The onset of narcosis will vary day-to-day and diver-to-diver... most probably due to differences in the physical exertion of dives, breathing rates, CO2 retention and divers psychcological states.

There is a common belief that experience with narcosis can lead divers to establish a psychological tolerance or 'coping mechanism' that enables them to function dispite being intoxicated. This is very different to the misbelief that some people have that divers can develop an immunity to it.

In addition, differerent divers have varied sub-consious reactions to narcosis. If they believe they suffer badly, then it is quite possible that they will psychologically exagerate any symptoms that occur (or even no symptoms at all). In which case, their behaviour can exhibit the signs of extreme intoxication, even if the physical narcosis is minimal.

On the other hand, some divers may believe that they are not prone to narcosis. Psychologically they will mask the symptoms and be unaware of any intoxication and diminished capacity that they have.
 
There is some anecdotal evidence that a diver who is convinced by training or other divers that narcosis will occur at such and such depth tend to report experiencing it at that depth. The mind over matter thing.

As other have pointed out different divers experience it differently and individual divers experience it differently from time to time.
I tend to be aware of it at depths below 130 feet, but have gone deeper without being aware of it.
 
I guess my question is >>>> When are you ready to get narced?

Your first experience at getting narced should be modeled like the 1960s LSD trips: you need an experienced, reliable buddy (or a dive instructor). Start diving progressively deeper until you get to about 100 feet. A few simple tasks at depth will help you to understand how impaired you are. You need to be comfortable in the water so that you don't panic when you do feel narcosis. You are ready to get narced when you are ready to dive to 100 feet.

New divers are so much more prone to being narced because???

I wouldn't say new divers are more prone to getting narced... I would say that new divers are more prone to over-react or panic when narced due to inexperience.

Or are we speaking that advanced divers just know how to deal with being narced?

Yes. They know how to deal with being narced by not getting into situations where they get narced. Like using different gases to prevent narcosis. They plan to dive in detail so they don't have to do much problem-solving when impaired. And by practicing essential skills over and over so that when impaired by narcosis they still have "muscle memory."
 
Narcosis, in a nutshell, is caused by a buildup of gasses in our body. It shows up at deeper depths because we're breathing a higher concentration of gas at depth ... which tend to make the effects more noticeable. Note that I said "gas" rather than "nitrogen", because there is some evidence that oxygen building up in our tissues affects us similarly to nitrogen.

Nobody really knows for certain what causes it. Some scientists believe it's because the higher concentrations of gas in our body block impulses traveling through certain types of nerves in our brain. What we do know for certain is the symptoms, which are similar in many ways to other forms of intoxicant. These can differ from individual to individual ... and they can even affect the same person differently from one dive to the next.

The earliest symptoms affect brain functions such as concentration, memory and judgment. How those effects manifest themselves in the diver will depend on the individual. For example, a diver who is very confident in his or her ability might start feeling a sense of euphoria. But a diver who is not secure with their skills or surroundings may experience a sense of anxiety. In both cases, these symptoms may indirectly cause trouble … the former may lead to poor decision-making, while the latter may lead to stress.

As we continue deeper, narcosis starts to affect motor functions. Movement becomes more difficult and coordination is reduced. A diver may experience difficulty reading or interpreting the display on a dive computer or making adjustments for buoyancy control. Furthermore, the diver may develop tunnel vision or have trouble remembering things such as the agreed-upon maximum depth, no-decompression limits, or turnaround pressure. The diver may react slowly to directions or visual cues from a buddy, or make serious errors in judgment that can lead to an accident.

Deep divers may experience even more severe symptoms, such as hallucinations or even unconsciousness. This is the primary reason why people who do very deep dives tend to prefer to use a breathing gas with helium in it, which is a very light and inert gas that doesn't exhibit the same symptoms.

Some divers are more susceptible to narcosis than others. Some divers will not recognize the symptoms in themselves, or will recognize them in their dive buddy’s behavior before the dive buddy realizes that they are narced. Our physical and mental state can have a significant impact not only on our susceptibility to narcosis, but also on how the symptoms manifest themselves. Symptoms can vary within the same diver from dive to dive. Certain factors, however, appear to increase the effects of narcosis. These factors include:

• Inexperience, or a lack of confidence in one’s abilities
• Fatigue or exertion
• Cold water
• Rapid descent
• Poor visibility
• Carbon dioxide buildup (hypercapnia)
• Task loading

The good news is that narcosis can be managed by the diver. Ascending to a shallower depth will reduce the symptoms progressively as you ascend … or will make them go away altogether. However, since narcosis is predominantly a mental disorder, even such things as focusing on your gauges or concentrating on a task will help make the symptoms more manageable. But keep in mind that if you are narced, the chances are very good that your dive buddy will be too. So a prudent thing to do would be to signal to your buddy to ascend a little bit to reduce the effects. All it usually takes is 10 or 15 feet in most cases to reduce them to the point where they are more manageable.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
THat last part of Harry's post is very important. I have a checklist if you will or routine that I use when doing deeper dives. I begin to check my spg more often, verify locations of gear, ( ie lights, reel, smb, etc) and in my mind go over deploying them. If diving with a buddy I also do more fequent checks of where they are. Harry and I did a dive a few weeks ago and this became more of an issue since we did not discuss positioning before the dive. As a result his cave training had him following me most of the time. I knew where he was by his light and the depths were not excessive. I think we hit a bit over 80 feet( need to check the log) but had we been deeper this could have been more of an issue.

Reason being is that on several occaisions my narc effect manifests itself in, for lack of a better term, "tunnel vision".

In that I become fixated on the mission objective to the point that if my buddy is not right beside me I may from time to time be not as aware of them as I should be. The "routine" came out of this as I realized one time I was not checking my air supply as I should have, and came very close to my running over my planned run time. I was going into deco anyway but had I not caught it or developed the tolerance and knowledge of how I react I could have even overrun my contigency plan.

I was doing these dives solo and realized I had 2 choices. Stop doing the dives alone or become as aware of the effects as I could and develop ways to handle those effects. Since it is often difficult for me to get dive buddies that can do the dives I want to do when I want to do them, I chose the latter. Using helium is not only an option for me but if I know I;m going deeper than 130 feet it is mandatory. But helium is not cheap so I don't do that many 130 plus dives but I have no issue going into deco at 100-125.
 
Maybe you're narced----if you're confused........:)
 
Your first experience at getting narced should be modeled like the 1960s LSD trips: you need an experienced, reliable buddy (or a dive instructor). Start diving progressively deeper until you get to about 100 feet. A few simple tasks at depth will help you to understand how impaired you are. You need to be comfortable in the water so that you don't panic when you do feel narcosis. You are ready to get narced when you are ready to dive to 100 feet.

I make a point of conducting an 'exertion test' also.

In deep water (30-40m), when there is no or slight narcosis felt, have the diver fin hard for a few minutes (until breathing hard). Then test again for narcosis.

The results can be surprising... and will teach how the onset of narcosis can drammatically be brought about in a demanding and/or emergency situation.
 

Back
Top Bottom