Could you do it?

[wardric]

Good question indeed.

In a real life or death situation, I would be ready to die for my kids only. I would not risk my life to save even my wife if it would mean certain death for both of us, and she would do the same. We talked and agreed about it and one of us must survive to raise our children the way we decided to, until they are old enough. That being said, we try not to put ourselves in that situation so we dont do dangerous sports or activities together without the kids if possible.

Now in the situation described in this thread,(ooa, rapid buddy ascent dragging you, etc.), I had never tought of it thoroughly and I dont know what would have been my reaction. But now at least, i think I might remember the discussion here and have a better reaction. It is better to think about possible emergency situation and imagine a course of action before it actually happens. Learned that in rescue class too.

Now for the personnal experience, I was once in a life threatening situation. Without my good buddy, I would have been in serious trouble. We did (as calmly as we could) what we had to do. But my buddy was never himself endangered to the point where he had to make a decision to let me go or stay with me. I wonder what he would have done. We will never know, and it's better that way

 

[Steve_Dives]

I was on a charter where two men bragged how they had just ran out of air on 120ft dive that day. One added joyfully how he “runs out or very low on air nearly every time” hehe. The wreck we were diving was at 95ft in swift current. Both men had trouble getting off the boat, one had tank on backwards and it had to be swapped, and then they proceeded drifting under the vessel before being able to grab the line. We had tried to sway the captain from telling that the wreck’s silty cargoholds can be penetrated - to no avail. These guys were going in. Their equipment was less than average OW diver – for example snorkeling fins on one, and definitely no reels etc.

TS's OP sent my thoughts to one of the recent Lessons for Life in SCUBA Diving magazine (I subscribe for that article, the rest is just the gravy). Two new AOW (I think) divers, both female, were on a wreck dive when one decided to penetrate the wreck through an opening in the hull - not part of their training, not part of their dive plan, and without even a thumb spool although they did have lights. It's a great story, but I won't repeat it here. They made it by the skin of their teeth and at least two divers surfaced OOA. The story had a happy ending because one of the buddies remained within eyesight of the hull breach and signalled a more qualified diver who made the rescue.

I'm with you on not following the bozos inside the wreck as I am not trained for it. And I wouldn't want to be near them in the water.

What I might do is check the experience level and equipment the other divers have - seeing if we can preplan a rescue if the need arises. I generally get that info in the normal predive chit chat, so it's just a matter of asking what we should do about the idiots. On a boat taking people with OW only, the best we might be able to do for the two diving hazards is note their entry point.

 

[Gary D.]

This is a good point, but my (limited) experience with adrenaline in emergencies is that it pretty much makes you stupid. It's as if the messages your brain is sending you are all in capital letters and phrased as simple commands. E.g., RUN AWAY! HIDE! HELP THAT PERSON! DO SOMETHING!

It's when you get the adrenaline-fueled DO SOMETHING command that you tend to do the very next thing that pops into your brain. This way be good or it may be bad, but the compulsion is hard to overcome.

Adrenaline is a CNS stimulator that is heavily biased toward action, to the severe detriment of contemplative thinking. It is released into the brain when doing something - anything - is generally better than doing nothing. Which is why training and training and training to the point of rote response is a good idea - so you don't have to think, you just react.

Most Cops and Firemen are adrenaline junkies. It must make you real stupid because when prople are running away from a fire or gun fight we head for it.

Gary D.

 

[Soggy]

I'm prepared to blow off 20 mins of mandatory O2 deco at my 20 foot stop if my buddy toxes. I'm likely to take a type 1 hit to the joints and need to go to the recompression chamber, but I'm prepared to do that.

No matter how good your deep stuff is, blowing off 20 minutes of O2 deco is likely to expeditiously give you a severe Type II hit or worse. It's not just going to be a little tingly feeling in your joints. Don't kid yourself.

Personally, I'd blow off a few minutes of deco or ascend to a shallower stop in order to pass someone off, but I'm not going to blow off ridiculous (20 minutes is a ridiculous amount to just ignore) in order to save someone who is likely already dead. Obviously, the situation is circumstantial. I'd do my best to go up with someone on a recreational level dive (or prevent them from going up if necessary).

I wonder how the attitude differs from those who have been bent vs those who have not.

 

[piikki]

I wonder how the attitude differs from those who have been bent vs those who have not.

I have also wondered how the attitude differs between those who have at least once been seriously hurt (and suffered consequences) in general vs those who never have. Not claiming all who have escaped serious injury/illness are (still more of) so called 'invulnerables' but being faced with death/permanent damage and discomfort is a great eye-opener and puts some things/risks into new perspective.

 

[LavaSurfer]

Could you abandon someone in trouble, and how would you cope with it if that person were permanently injured or killed as a result?

It would be hard but yes. I would do all I could and then back off.
Its like they say on Everest, Rescuing someone will be the last NICE thing you do.

I think responsibility stops just shy of your own death.

 

[LavaSurfer]

This is a good point, but my (limited) experience with adrenaline in emergencies is that it pretty much makes you stupid. It's as if the messages your brain is sending you are all in capital letters and phrased as simple commands. E.g., RUN AWAY! HIDE! HELP THAT PERSON! DO SOMETHING!

There are theories to back this up. One theory is that when adrenaline starts pumping, at high levels you actually go into an autistic state where you focus on things vs. people. Your reactions become cold and reactionary instead of calculated. Adrenaline works good right up to a tipping point where it makes you stupid.

I was a fireman for 10 years and almost lost my life due to stupidity and after the incident I couldn't even comprehend my actions, they were stupid.

 

[Debraw]

It would be hard but yes. I would do all I could and then back off.
Its like they say on Everest, Rescuing someone will be the last NICE thing you do.

I think responsibility stops just shy of your own death.

Ditto.....

 

[Zeeman]

Like a few people here, I would do everything I could so long as I was sur ein myself that it wouldn't kill me. I have several dangerous hobbies, and I think "being prepared for the worst" is the best way to deal with it.

I guess everyone should ask themselves whether or not they are prepared to die for what they do. If the answer is no, then it's probably a good idea to find another hobby. By the way - being "prepared to die" does not mean "you will die", it means that you accept that it is possible, and you take the best steps you can to minimise the risks.

z...

 

[David K]

What if the action you need to take to help puts you at risk, whether it's a panicked diver

A dive buddy experiencing CO2 toxicity, would be a handful for anyone to help.

CO2 toxicity can be caused by the combination of a low performance regulator, a high level of physical activity & a dive near the limits of recreational diving.

CO2 toxicity creates the sensation that the gas coming out of your regulator isn’t doing you any good. If this spins out of control the distressed diver can go primal looking for a regulator that works.

I experienced this first hand early in my dive career, fortunately I stopped swimming calmed down & reduced my depth, as quickly as it had come on it went away. I came close to spitting out my regulator @ 100ft in order to get a good breath. Had I spun out of control & gone primal my dive buddy would have been at great risk had he attempted to help me.

Doing a deep dive (i.e. beyond recreational limits) on air in a current is a recipe for CO2 toxicity. The solution under these conditions is to use helium in your mix (easier to breath than air), use a high performance regulator (reduces the work of breathing) and employ a scooter to reduce your level of physical activity.

There is a reason deep air divers dive solo, if they go primal only one person is going to die.

My training would cause me to intervene & attempt to help my buddy at the risk of my own demise.

David K