Crawling outa the water

[Randy43068]

Good way to fan the FLAMES!

yeah, maybe. I'm just in a mood about this kind of horse****

 

[Web Monkey]

she tells me its my fault cuz I wasnt there to pick her up when she got to shore???? I explained to her that me and my better half always walk out, and up,, I was looking at my own footing because of the rocky shore. I did not expect her to crawl out of the lake tho, thought she was right behind me.
Shouldnt it be a requirement to be able to support your own gear? I dont mind helping out, donning and doffing the bc and what not, but you should be able to support it?

It's your fault for not being there while she was exiting the water. If she did a face-plant while standing, without a reg in her mouth, she'd be dead now.

As for "crawling", the best way into or out of any water is the easiest and safest. I've certainly crawled out of my share of boulder-infested and moss-covered shorelines. While not "elegant", crawling is much more stable and means that if a wave knocks you over you won't splatter your head on the rocks.

Terry

 

[crd_kats]

yeah, maybe. I'm just in a mood about this kind of horse****

C'mon Randy, this is life. If something can be bitched about, it shall be bitched about. If camps can be chosen and divisive lines drawn that promote mob mentality and a loss of individuality, all the better. That's progress, right?

In answer to this, I'll quote a really good post from a few days ago:

Because this is a discussion board and most of us come here to discuss things. Opposing view points on topics can often bring better understandings to discussions if it can be done civilly.

Feel free to disagree with what I just said.

 

[fnfalman]

I've crawled out of a beach dive or two before. Better than getting turtled.

 

[fnfalman]

Seriously doubt she would have let you. Women develope this instinct early on in diving.

Dammit!!! No wonder those hot scuba babes never called me back even though I schlepped their gears to their cars.

 

[Blackwood]

That said, of course anybody struggling to get out of the water should be helped.

Absolutely.

It's a huge pet peeve (to put it mildly) of mine when I'm at the beach and see a group of divers hanging out talking about the dive while one of them is still struggling to get out of the water. On three separate occasions I've walked over and aided an exhausted (and probably over weighted) diver with a tricky steep beach exit while their "buddies" stood by obliviously.

You're both right. She did the right thing by directly (I think) telling you what her expectation is. You did the right thing by explaining that this isn't the usual expection

Problem being that this discourse took place AFTER the dive

 

[crd_kats]

Absolutely.

It's a huge pet peeve (to put it mildly) of mine when I'm at the beach and see a group of divers hanging out talking about the dive while one of them is still struggling to get out of the water. On three separate occasions I've walked over and aided an exhausted (and probably over weighted) diver with a tricky steep beach exit while their "buddies" stood by oblivious.

Problem being that this discourse took place AFTER the dive

Nope, dive wasn't over. They were still in the water. This has been said on page 1. Read back The dive is over when you're back at your car with your buddy, at the entry point on the beach/sand with your buddy, on the rocky shore of a lake with your buddy, sitting on the boat bench with your buddy, sitting in your individual kayaks with your buddy.

 

[ScubaSam]

This is all about expectations.

You think she should be able to man-handle her gear

She thinks you're a boob for not helping her

You're both right. She did the right thing by directly (I think) telling you what her expectation is. You did the right thing by explaining that this isn't the usual expection.....

....

and then communication broke down.

What I would suggest is that on your side *you* remain open to the idea that not every buddy is your S.O. and some of your buddies will expect and need other things from you than your usual buddy .... your buddy's problem is that she only made her expectations clear *after* she needed your help..... I'm sure she knew from the get-go that she was going to need your help.

All this comes back to the age-old principle that talking about expectations *before* something happens is better than talking about them *after* something happens.

R..
P.S. If I thought every buddy needed from me exactly what my usual buddy expects from me then then
-1- I would expect every buddy to be highly experienced, highly self sufficient, confident and in control and
-2- I would expect every buddy to want beer after the dive... LOL

Something to think about. Everyone is different.

R..

Good thread, despite Randy's protest , as it reminds us that each diver has different expectations from their buddies and this should be discussed prior to entering the water.

Diver0001 touched on all the points I thought while reading the OP's post because I believe both parties were at fault for all the reasons he listed. I've had my fair share of insta-buddies given none of my friends nor family are divers, so I'm an expert in gauging the type of buddy I have before we hit the water.

If I need help, which is rare, I'll commuicate it to my buddy but I pride myself in being self sufficient and not being a burden to my dive buddies.

 

[offthewall1]

So yesterday, went diving with a couple people,, my better half couldnt go because she was gettin her hair fixed up to see how it will look for the wedding. Anyhow, I had a new dive buddy, she put her bc and everything on sitting down, then couldnt stand up.. well, we got her to the water, the dive went O.K. we didnt have any problems, till we started walking out of the lake at the end of the dive. Its very rocky there,, we get to about 3 feet of water, I take my mask off,walk out and up to my truck with my gear on to doff it. Its easier in my opinion to leave it on my back to carry it up. Anyhow, when I get to the truck, the lady is trying to crawl out of the lake,,,she cant support the weight of her equipment I guess, well, in the process of trying to exit this way, she loses a fin. I go down to help her look for it, she tells me its my fault cuz I wasnt there to pick her up when she got to shore???? I self explained to her that me and my better half always walk out, and up,, I was looking at my own footing because of the rocky shore. I did not expect her to crawl out of the lake tho, thought she was right behind me.
Shouldnt it be a requirement to be able to support your own gear? I dont mind helping out, donning and doffing the bc and what not, but you should be able to support it?

The answers here are many... as opinions so far have suggested... however there are some simple educational points I think both you and your friend should consider.

1. Dive Planning / Pre-Dive Buddy Checks - Discuss entries and exits prior to the dive. This will shed light on a buddy feeling the need for assistance and allow the other buddy to determine if this is a dive they want to do knowing the buddies limitations. (On a side note - when your buddy had trouble standing up during entry... it should have been a clear sign they would need help getting back up during exit.)

2. Self Assessment - Each diver should know their own limitations and dive accordingly. Your buddy appears to know their limitations but did not express them to you in a pre-dive buddy plan. Had they done so... and had you accepted those limitations, you would not have had to make this post. It appears there was a simple lack of communication on this dive... but your buddy also should reconsider their self assessment and whether or not they should be doing this type of diving.

As far as requirements for divers - there are legally none (at least in the US,) and only self imposed (accepted) requirements placed on divers by Instructors via training agencies. In other words, you can do whatever you want in diving - don't even need a c-card, don't need good health, don't even need arms or legs. The only requirements on divers in the USA are the ones they place on themselves.

Final Word: Was it fair for your buddy to expect assistance? Of course - you were their buddy.

 

[Cave Diver]

Dammit!!! No wonder those hot scuba babes never called me back even though I schlepped their gears to their cars.

Next time, try schlepping some of THEIR gear to YOUR car. I can almost guarantee you'll get a call from them later.