Dangerous BC witnessed this weekend!!!

[waterdaughter]

This weekend I saw a guy wearing what I believe was a "Mares Dragonfly" BC.

There should be a law against selling this kind of crap. The BC was weight integrated and had this really odd inflate/deflate "block" for lack of a better word down by the waist, left side.

This guy was obviously a new diver, wearing new equipment. The dealer should be ashamed. The guy was having weighting difficulties. No fault there. We've all been there. We were helping him put weights in his integrated pouches. A little at a time.

Then it happened. He comes up again, still underweighted. We have him pull the pouches. He pulls both and BAMM. One pouch deploys as designed. The other one......JUST THE HANDLE, NYLON STRAP AND SOME PIECE OF PLASTIC!!!!!

The piece of plastic I believe is something to give shape and help quide out the pouch. The pouch just cinches down over the strap mechanism. Using some kind of barrel lock type of deal. You know the kind that never works for very long.

Had this guy been in a real tight spot and needed to dump weight...all of it, he would have been screwed!

I didnt get to examine the gear over and over for a while. I dont think I need to. This thing and anything that looks like it, should be recalled for SAFETY reasons. This is a BAD design and you should all be aware of it.

Stay Safe!
Sparky

I'm sure that was a very sobering experience and probably scary for the diver especially. I hope this person kept their tags and QC #'s so that the error can be tracked to the source and resolved.

Having said that...I own a Mares Morphos Pro---an air trim, also weight integrated with the "plastic barrel lock" handle you describe. That "block" is the inflator hose, a different location, yes, but works in the same manner---one large yellow button releases the air, and the big grey one adds air to the BC (both buttons accomodate a gloved finger/thumb beautifully) and IMHO, is a more intuitive design than a hose that you might need to search for, because it has floated back behind your ear, etc. It's always right there, over your left pocket...easy! Of course, like anything, it is a matter of personal preference, so long as your buddy knows how to operate as well.

Additionally, an advantage of this "bad design" is that these Mares (not sure of other brands) airtrim BC's can be vented from any position, with that odd "block", so you don't need to hold your arm up over your head to dump when descending.


The construction of the weight pockets, includes a sliding track but the female portion of the lock is part of the weight pouch---in my experience with the BC, the weights do not come out, unless you release the lock, even if you have not inserted them properly along that plastic guide track. (and there is a bit of a knack to it at first) The track is fused to the inside of the weight pocket and is an additional/redundant method of attaching the weight pouch. The handle on the pouch has an extension which slides into this track...so the track is not a part of the weight pouch at all.

I am not sure how all of these pieces would come off without the weight coming out as well? However, if all of it was forced out, (man, you would have to be strong) without unlocking and the weight was still attached to the track, conceivably you could get the whole kit and kaboodle. Still, if you broke the handle and lost the track, there would be nothing to stop the weight from coming out...short of swimming on your back , so if this was a common occurrence, being unable to ditch your weights would not be the issue.

Perhaps you will see this response as a biased opinion to justify my own purchase of a similar system, but still, I would humbly suggest that it is possible that while this particular BC was defective, it does not necessarily follow that this family of BCD design, (which is increasingy popular ) warrants quite such a sweeping generalization.

no offense, just my .02

Cathy

 

[hecker-the-wrecker]

I have a mares v-1 and it uses the same plastic locking system. I haven't had any problems with my integrated weights, although when it was NEW, it did take a bit of effort to squeeze and pull the weights. I don't think I would condemn the design for one failure on the surface. In my opinion, I like this set up better than the others, (no velcro). I would warranty it and give it a chance.

 

[edneeves]

This is an issue when designs get more complicated. I am sure its an isolated situation and the majority of the BC's work perfectly.

We need to get back to simplicity, hmm maybe DIR has a point!

Ed.

 

[String]

I think its a good safety feature. I see no use for dumping weight at depth so maybe its a good mares feature

To the question about failiure at depth. OK my BC wont inflate.

Firstly try manual inflate

If that doesnt work i have my drysuit for buoyancy

If that doesnt work i have my DSMB which can provide near 50lb lift.

My buddy also has a BC, drysuit and DSMB.

Thats 6 possible sources of buoyancy and even 3 assuming buddy separation and then failiure. Why exactly would i need to ditch !

(My objections to weight integrated BCs especially in cold water are well documented on here though).

 

[waterdaughter]

I think its a good safety feature. I see no use for dumping weight at depth so maybe its a good mares feature

To the question about failiure at depth. OK my BC wont inflate.

Firstly try manual inflate

If that doesnt work i have my drysuit for buoyancy

If that doesnt work i have my DSMB which can provide near 50lb lift.

My buddy also has a BC, drysuit and DSMB.

Thats 6 possible sources of buoyancy and even 3 assuming buddy separation and then failiure. Why exactly would i need to ditch !

(My objections to weight integrated BCs especially in cold water are well documented on here though).

Curious, String...where can I find your comments/ concerns with weight integrated BCs and cold water :06: ...interested, since the Great lakes area rarely qualifies as warm water, and whaddaya know, here I am! lol.
Cathy

 

[DutchDown]

Sounds like it was a manufacturing error with that particular bc. Plenty of people are diving the Airtrim system and the MRS weight system and are happy with them.

Phil

 

[MonkSeal]

That "block" is the inflator hose, a different location, yes, but works in the same manner---one large yellow button releases the air, and the big grey one adds air to the BC (both buttons accomodate a gloved finger/thumb beautifully) and IMHO, is a more intuitive design than a hose that you might need to search for, because it has floated back behind your ear, etc. It's always right there, over your left pocket...easy! Of course, like anything, it is a matter of personal preference, so long as your buddy knows how to operate as well.

Additionally, an advantage of this "bad design" is that these Mares (not sure of other brands) airtrim BC's can be vented from any position, with that odd "block", so you don't need to hold your arm up over your head to dump when descending.

Well, if it's not simple - it's bad design. Here's the short list of questions for those who think this is good piece of gear:
1. How can you manualy inflate your BC ?
2. What will you do if it stucks and start to fill your BC with air ?
3. How can you breathe from BC inflator hose ? (as you know it can be used 2nd backup, besides normal backup)

I have the answers for the questions above for the gear I dive.

Hose can't float behind your back, around ears, etc. because it's somehow attached to harness, depending if you dive clasic BC or BP/W setup.

Regarding venting in any position, venting the BC shouldn't be problem for any diver but if such thing as "air trim" fails then venting becomes a serious problem.

BTW I've seen problem with venting this BC in horizontal position. Maybe that particular one was not OK but still that "block" is IMHO looking for failure.

 

[Firefyter]

1. How can you manualy inflate your BC ?
2. What will you do if it stucks and start to fill your BC with air ?
3. How can you breathe from BC inflator hose ? (as you know it can be used 2nd backup, besides normal backup)

I have the answers for the questions above for the gear I dive.

1.You manually inflate it using the inflator hose in the right hand pocket.

2. If it sticks, you handle just as you would if YOUR inflator stuck...you would unhook the hose.

3. You can't breathe from it, but most agencies now tell you NOT to breathe from your BC due to the funk that might be growing in there.

My wife dives with one of these, and I have no problems with it. It dives well, vents well, and is easy to use. Most of the people ranting against these are doing so with no valid comparison, or because "somebody" told them they were bad. Kinda like the "vaseline ruins a mask" BS....I've been using vaseline on my mustache for years, using the same mask, with no ill effects on the mask.....in other words, don't condemn things on hearsay, without facts to back them up...

 

[waterdaughter]

All questions I had included in my research when I was chooosing a BCD.
How can you manually inflate?
There is a straw-like tube which sits very nicely in the pocket, with just the tip sticking out...you simply extend and blow---actually requires less co-ordination required than manual inflation with a standard inflator hose, since there are no buttons to push and release.
What if it sticks?
Same as an inflator hose...there is a quick connect/release which attaches to the "block" (which is really nothing more than the end of a standard inflator hose, only the buttons are larger and more visible)
How can you breath from the inflator hose?
Since there is not an actual inflator hose as such...you cannot use it as an air source. In the event that one needed an AAS aside from one's own octopus, one would need to rely on their buddy.
As far as the "air trim" failing, there are 2 lateral dump valves on the BC, in addition to the ability to use a pneumatically operated valve. I believe that is at least as many options as most vest setups?
I can understand why a different design may not appeal to some...and even why one might suppose such a departure from the norm, might be asking for failure---but in actuality, this "block" is not so different than the end of any other inflator and in fact, the design is very simple---IMHO, maybe even more simple than the tried and true, since there is no inflator hose to worry about as far as position, maintenance, patency, or integrity. There it sits (the "block") and stays... right over your pocket. That big yellow button means it is not only easily visible to the wearer...but highly visible to others as well. For me, big and bright makes life simpler!

It is a vest, but I have heard the airtrim described as a kind of a hybrid. (Possibly because most of the air seems to collect in the bladder areas on either side of the tank, when you are sumerged, but I wouldn't know for certain their marketing strategies) I have no experience with BP/W, so couldn't even begin to compare the two systems.

I wish I could address your questions more adequately, but sadly, I am not as knowledgeable or articulate as this topic requires, Perhaps someone else can jump in?

If not, there are many websites and reviews to be found. It has been a topic of discussion on the board as well.

respectfully,
>C

 

[waterdaughter]

oops...I see Firefyter did a splendid job while I was composing my novella, lol

Oh...btw, FF, very impressive and sweet...being so knowledgeable about your wife's equipment.



>C