Dangerous dive shop ? what do you think ?

[tdtaylor]

Your other thread strongly suggests that the posts here tell you safety is not important. Somehow your degrees and education have not focused on reading comprehension. I can't see where anyone mentioned safety is not important. Also, since parading all the education by us, you must be very self confident. Why not act like an adult and just say no.

Find another dive shop that is not a resort. You will probably find it is quite different. But I am suspicious you'll find another list to develop there.

PS: You may never find out, but many of us have equivalent education or degrees- you'll just find most divers could care less. Have a fellow diver who feels he must strut his stuff at every turn- funny how he can never find a dive buddy.....

 

[The Chairman]

Nothing that the shop has done indicates that they are being unsafe. Not one bit. They do sound as if they don't mind inconveniencing you in order to be profitable. While far from being altruistic, I just can't condemn their focus on profitability.

While not as convinced as the others that you should hang up your fins, I would suggest that you find an independent instructor who routinely teaches only one or two students at a time and be prepared to pay them for their time. Unlike a few of my peers, I am incredibly patient and accommodating, but I am anything but cheap (don't even go there, Frank! ). You're going to get what you pay for. If you want cheap instruction, then you'll have to make allowances for the things the shop has to do to make this kind of pricing structure work. It's not that you are a bad person for wanting these accommodations, it's just that you are being unrealistic in your expectations here.

 

[jackuk]

Thanks , please refer to 5,7, and 8
I've always been bad at listening, reading and comprehension that's why I had to settle for an academic life . On the contrary I am very shy and diffident ! but I am OK with forums and addressing large groups of people (also the local beer Bingtang helps ).
I did say NO , just wanted the opinions of the esteemed learned members of this forum because I lack confidence !
I am not surprised about not being able to find dive buddies, I've never had a best friend or even that many friends. In case I cant find a dive buddy, what do you suggest ? can I use a DM from the dive shop ?
Thanks again for your insightful comments

Your other thread strongly suggests that the posts here tell you safety is not important. Somehow your degrees and education have not focused on reading comprehension. I can't see where anyone mentioned safety is not important. Also, since parading all the education by us, you must be very self confident. Why not act like an adult and just say no.

Find another dive shop that is not a resort. You will probably find it is quite different. But I am suspicious you'll find another list to develop there.

PS: You may never find out, but many of us have equivalent education or degrees- you'll just find most divers could care less. Have a fellow diver who feels he must strut his stuff at every turn- funny how he can never find a dive buddy.....

---------- Post added December 7th, 2012 at 10:06 AM ----------

Wow, thanks NetDoc, I am very grateful for your very insightful comments. It's just that I have no experience in this area and there was no way for me to judge whether my expectations were unrealistic or not. I've read a lot about diving and read the ow manual 5 times, but that doesn't prepare one for approaching dive shops in real life
The other confusing fact is that the price of courses are fixed here in Gili islands for all dive shops. I will try to locate independent instructors but I doubt they exist here.
Diving is something I want to pursue as a serious hobby, I just love water and aquatic life
I am glad to hear that safety was not compromised again my comments were do to ignorance and lack of experience.
Thanks again for the constructive feedback
Jack

Nothing that the shop has done indicates that they are being unsafe. Not one bit. They do sound as if they don't mind inconveniencing you in order to be profitable. While far from being altruistic, I just can't condemn their focus on profitability.

While not as convinced as the others that you should hang up your fins, I would suggest that you find an independent instructor who routinely teaches only one or two students at a time and be prepared to pay them for their time. Unlike a few of my peers, I am incredibly patient and accommodating, but I am anything but cheap (don't even go there, Frank! ). You're going to get what you pay for. If you want cheap instruction, then you'll have to make allowances for the things the shop has to do to make this kind of pricing structure work. It's not that you are a bad person for wanting these accommodations, it's just that you are being unrealistic in your expectations here.

 

[Scuba_Noob]

Unsafe, it doesn't appear so. Unprofessional in some aspects? Probably.

Like other posters mention, if you don't feel comfortable with a dive shop, don't train with them. Look for another one. Scuba diving is pretty amazing to many people, so I wouldn't give up just yet.

 

[jackuk]

I just realised that my question now is :
It's still safe to learn the fundamentals from a resort ?
I guess YES would be the answer to this question as many have and continue to do so.

---------- Post added December 7th, 2012 at 10:14 AM ----------

Thanks for the constructive feedback and the encouraging words Scuba_Noob

Unsafe, it doesn't appear so. Unprofessional in some aspects? Probably.

Like other posters mention, if you don't feel comfortable with a dive shop, don't train with them. Look for another one. Scuba diving is pretty amazing to many people, so I wouldn't give up just yet.

 

[ScubaToneDog]

I would have to agree with the the notion that this particular course is not for you. Try to find a course that is not done in a couple of days. A longer course, 6-8 weeks, works on skills in a controlled environment before going to open water. 1 on 1 instruction is fine, but a class of 6-10 students, learning together, is better. Being buddied with another student allowing the teaching staff to observe and guide vs holding your hand through the process allows a student to better absorb and retain skills.

Now for the part you may take as criticism, but it is harsh reality in Scuba.
1. You need to be a good student.
2. You will be required to learn, not follow blindly along dependent on the instructor or Dive master for your safety.
3. You cannot have a "I'm paying for this and expect a certification because I did" attitude.
4. There are no shortcuts in Scuba education.
5. You will need to continue your education and keep up your skills to be a safe and competent diver.
6. Diving once a year on vacation does not make you a safe and competent diver.
7. You must be open to critique on every dive no matter your level of certification.
8. You must be open to calling the dive, and open to others calling the dive, at any time, for any reason without repercussion or discussion.
9. You are going into a foreign environment that requires a life support system. You will be uncomfortable and you will more than likely experience some or all of the following: physical exhaustion, mental exhaustion, hypothermia, cuts, abrasions, ear squeeze, mask squeeze, sinus squeeze, motion sickness, claustrophobia, water up your nose, water in your eyes, vertigo, dehydration, hyperventilation, CO2 headaches (from skip breathing), rashes, animal bites, animal stings,swimmers ear, ear infections....and yes maybe even a leech or two attached to you somewhere (depending where you dive).
10. Diving is not for everyone.


Lastly, your account of the Dive Shop in question is full of your personal emotional perceptions. I do not see anything in your account that shows they are unsafe, out of line or dangerous. 4 dives are required for certification. Depending on the course length, which I assume is 3 days, then they were correct that you needed to complete 3 dives in one day if you took a day off, which is in line with standards. Their alternative would have been to to tell you you needed to extend the course or that they wouldn't be able to certify you all. And according to your account and perceptions, the alternatives would have been even more reason for you to label them as a "Dangerous Dive Shop". No win situation for them. As far as the "out of date book and DVD"....the info hasn't changed, just attributes and maybe new organizational info. The physics and base knowledge are still exactly the same.

My question for you is this, and one we ask students on day 1. Why do you want to Dive?

 

[ScubaSteve]

I am thoroughly impressed by the OP's background in the academic world (as he has stated a couple of times). Why is it that the people that come here to bitch and refuse to listen to reasonable rebuttle have to try to upsell themselves as being superior people in some way - in the OP's case just how smart he is with his "academic life" and 2 PHd's.? Kind of funny IMO.

Many of the 11 points could easily be treated as non-issues. You choose to make them issues. It is possible that diving is not for you OR you could have done what you insides were telling you to do and go somewhere else for it.

 

[Diver0001]

Wow thanks !
This was 1:1
Call me stupid but safety is my 1st priority because I have this disability of being unable to breath underwater like the fish do !
Btw isn't (and shouldn't ) safety be the primary concern of every diver ? and here I assumed PADI and SSI were all about improving safety !
how silly of me !
Why do these PADI people say such silly things as not to dive if you are physically exhausted , hmm... maybe they need to revise their manual ?



---------- Post added December 7th, 2012 at 08:38 AM ----------

Absolutely I just like to ride motorbikes on F1 circuits guess is much safer than fast cars

Well... expected a passive-aggressive reaction and I got one, so that pretty much confirms my suspicions about your character.

I'll make one thing clear, which is that I wasn't suggesting that safety shouldn't be a major concern. In the OP, however, you mentioned cost issues 3 times and didn't give any clear examples of safety concerns except to allude to things that you weren't satisfied about.

So I'll reiterate my advice. Look for a private instructor with a lot of patience and a strong "click" because from what I'm reading, I think this will suit your character better.

Good luck.

R..

 

[Quero]

Hi jackuk. As another academic (in my previous life), I can relate professionally to what you're saying about your experience trying to learn scuba. What appears to me to have happened is that you lacked confidence in your OW instructor from the beginning and nothing he did made you feel you had misjudged him. In fact many of the things he did or said eroded your confidence even further. Trying to learn from somebody you don't really trust on one level will make you question his competence on all other levels as well.

When we add to that the stress you must have been feeling to cause you to become exhausted on what any certified diver would find to be a very simple dive during your Discover Scuba Diving experience (standards require that this dive be shallow and that it be conducted in benign conditions), it becomes clear that you are in need of a nurturing sort of very experienced instructor rather than the laid-back, self-absorbed one you were assigned. Unfortunately, the place you chose to learn to dive is pretty much a magnet for that sort of instructor, and it also attracts backpackers as student divers--by definition people who are not too fussed about meticulousity.

I'm not sure the dive shop was necessarily dangerous, but I do think it was a poor match for you as a student. I would say that you need a different sort of instructor and a different sort of dive school. If you're still in SE Asia, come to Phuket and I'll work with you. I'm willing to bet that you would be successful.

 

[DCBC]

Jack, thanks for the PM. I'll reply shortly.