Dark Narc or Why I don’t dive air to 100ft

[dumpsterDiver]

CO2 is a huge issue. Another reason to gently ascend from the depth of impairment. However, the Op indicated that their SAC rates were low, so it doesn't sound like they were over exerted while swimming over a lake bottom.

 

[Noboundaries]

This was a very informative, educational thread, especially for those of us just beginning our subsurface explorations. Please, no need for sniping. It is very distracting.

And my only darc narc (heavy anxiety) was from C02 buildup due to breathing way too fast on several short, cold water dives. They were dives where I felt I had plenty of air and didn't feel I needed to breathe in a relaxed manner. Lesson learned.

 

[tiggrr]

I'm sorry, but this is the statement of someone who has never been disoriented in poor visibility in midwater. It can be quite dangerous. I know.

The whole problem is that you're narced; to begin with, you don't know that's what the problem IS. Once you figure it out, ascending is the right thing to do, but how far are you going to have to go up before your head clears, and what is going to happen to you in the meantime? The scary thing about this story is that BOTH divers were narced, so one is doing things that don't make any sense, and the other one isn't doing anything about it. I'm still not convinced that ascending out of reference to the bottom is going to improve matters much, especially if one diver is hallucinating and disoriented, and the other one is too impaired to intervene if the first one starts doing somersaults or gets feet up and heads for the surface.

Well, I have been disoriented many times in cold, murky water. And yes, it can be quite dangerous experiencing the dark side of nitrogen narcosis. Thats why I don't understand your thought process.

Staying at depth and hoping for the best would seem to be the worst possible choice. Yes, its cold. Yes, vis is crap. However, the main issue is the narcosis. That is the main problem to address especially with the extreme symptoms the OP is describing. I have never heard of someone ascending and the symptoms not disappearing. Mine have always gone away by 60ft. That is not too close to the surface. Even if they had to ascend to 20ft, it is a better scenerio than sitting at 100ft hoping for the best as things keep falling apart.

And as the OP described, as they were ascending, things get better.

Yes, there are skills involved in ascending in murk such as staying with your buddy and depending on your gauges. But, none of these skills are out of reach of an open water diver. If you are not comfortable with the lack of reference point, then you focus on your gauges. If you think you will loose your buddy, you can do an ascent holding on to each others bc's. There are a lot of options.

The point I am trying to make is to be proactive in your diving. Every problem has a solution.

 

[battles2a5]

CO2 is a huge issue. Another reason to gently ascend from the depth of impairment. However, the Op indicated that their SAC rates were low, so it doesn't sound like they were over exerted while swimming over a lake bottom.

SAC rates were low during the dive, but were likely elevated once things went sideways, which can start the ball rolling. Also, diving in cold dark water with a lot of equipment will yield a higher SAC than diving a single 80 w/ a wetsuit, so that would lead me to believe that your basal CO2 production would be higher as well? I'm not a doctor, just postulating based on my own experience.

I agree that you should gently ascend IF that is a safe option. Poor vis where you will lose a visual reference, overhead environment (soft or hard), are situations where you simply should not or cannot ascend. So you need to mitigate the cause of the problem as much as possible through proper planning, and tune your awareness to the point that you recognize the cycle before it becomes a problem.

Enjoying this thread

 

[tiggrr]

Poor vis where you will lose a visual reference

This is where I am lost in this thread. Why is losing a visual reference such a problem?




I am enjoying this thread as well.

 

[Nemrod]

I think people tend to blame narcosis on many things, real and mostly imagined.

N

 

[battles2a5]

This is where I am lost in this thread. Why is losing a visual reference such a problem?




I am enjoying this thread as well.

From my perspective if you are in bad vis, making a free ascent without the aid of a visual reference (anchor line, upline, lift bag, whatever) can be an invitation for trouble. I'm talking bad vis as in cannot see the bottom, surface, or anything else. Depending on who you ask, you *should* be able to manage it, but if you are already narced and anxious you are adding a lot of task loading that you don't need.

 

[eponym]

CO2 is a huge issue. Another reason to gently ascend from the depth of impairment. However, the Op indicated that their SAC rates were low, so it doesn't sound like they were over-exerted while swimming over a lake bottom.

Good point. But as an exercise, consider that if a diver's air consumption is low for the conditions (actual and psychological) perhaps the diver is breathing shallow to conserve air. This can cause CO2 retention due to incomplete exhalataion. I had one OWD student consistently surface with headache dues to efforts to conserve air on the first twenty or so dives, but he eventually saw the light. Shallow breaths decrease CO2 offgassing and key one up for panic.

-Bryan

 

[TSandM]

From my perspective if you are in bad vis, making a free ascent without the aid of a visual reference (anchor line, upline, lift bag, whatever) can be an invitation for trouble. I'm talking bad vis as in cannot see the bottom, surface, or anything else. Depending on who you ask, you *should* be able to manage it, but if you are already narced and anxious you are adding a lot of task loading that you don't need.

Thank you!

Free ascents are an OW skill. But free ascents in very poor visibility are significant task loading, with keeping track of depth and direction and ascent rate and buddy . . . And doing all this when you're so narced you're seeing things just doesn't seem to me to be a good idea.

I am plagued with midwater disorientation at depths where I am NOT narced. Imagining me, on one of my narc episodes, trying to execute a competent free ascent with another, equally impaired diver, gives me the willies.

Guys, the answer to the problem isn't what you do once you get that severely impaired. The answer is NOT to get that severely impaired. Either don't go to those depths in cold water and poor viz, or use a breathing mix that doesn't end you up seeing hobgoblins. We're focusing on the wrong thing here.

This was actually a pretty scary scenario, with two apparently very narced divers, neither of whom was processing well enough to say, "I'm narced, better get shallower." With different equipment and less experience, this could well have ended up with somebody out of gas down there. Narcosis isn't funny, and it isn't trivial, and it doesn't have to happen!

 

[tiggrr]

From my perspective if you are in bad vis, making a free ascent without the aid of a visual reference (anchor line, upline, lift bag, whatever) can be an invitation for trouble. I'm talking bad vis as in cannot see the bottom, surface, or anything else. Depending on who you ask, you *should* be able to manage it, but if you are already narced and anxious you are adding a lot of task loading that you don't need.

Then I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

Cheers