Deaths in Tioman

[CarcharodonCarcharias]

I would think that a not-yet-certified student who is out of air at depth might not be calmly reflecting back on his/her training... Getting mauled for a reg is one thing. Risking having my inflator/deflator hose ripped off on top of it...well, for me, it just wouldn't be worth the risk if I was an instructor.

I have always been under the opinion that SCUBA diving is not for the faint of heart and ppl that are easily panicked.

---------- Post added September 10th, 2013 at 10:08 PM ----------

Then they were not trained properly in confined water. Training programs (PADI, BSAC, NAUI, SSI, etc.) are designed to train students to deal with these types of emergencies if they arise. They are tested for water confidence before they even start and should be weeded out of the class if they can't show they are confortable. Then they should be practicing drills enough that they are second nature so that training automatically kicks in during an emergency. That's the point of the training.

This is what I was referring to about churning certified divers out in my previous posts. There does not seem to be a lot of weeding out going on. Then again, I don't work in the trade so I cannot provide any stats to prove that point. But it is my opinion and the impression that I have from my observation.

 

[Zippsy]

Yes but churning out divers while losing money on each one you teach - or making a $10 or $20 on each one - is not going to keep a shop open in Singapore. I reckon that most use teaching as a loss-leader, hoping that students will continue to dive with them on weekend & overseas trips or buy gear from them. For most freelance and part-time instructors, it's just an expensive hobby. No one is getting rich from diving in Singapore.

 

[CarcharodonCarcharias]

Yes but churning out divers while losing money on each one you teach - or making a $10 or $20 on each one - is not going to keep a shop open in Singapore. I reckon that most use teaching as a loss-leader, hoping that students will continue to dive with them on weekend & overseas trips or buy gear from them. For most freelance and part-time instructors, it's just an expensive hobby. No one is getting rich from diving in Singapore.

True that.

 

[Scott from LongIsland]

I think its a bad idea, especially when you're an instructor teaching a group of new students to grab the alternate air source while yours is on your inflator hose. Its confusing in an emergency, and the hose is so short, there is no way to do any kind of swimming (e.g. to grab another struggling student) if necessary while sharing air.

it can be an especially bad idea for an instructor to use one when their main reg has a fitted mouthpiece. I have seen more than a few instructors with this setup. makes no sense to me.

 

[dorkito]

I think there is something to be said for instructors to have the same setup as the students (if not the same gear exactly).


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[unlvrebel]

Then they were not trained properly in confined water. Training programs (PADI, BSAC, NAUI, SSI, etc.) are designed to train students to deal with these types of emergencies if they arise. They are tested for water confidence before they even start and should be weeded out of the class if they can't show they are confortable. Then they should be practicing drills enough that they are second nature so that training automatically kicks in during an emergency. That's the point of the training.

I recall that in my first OW training ocean dive, 30 seconds after descending, my reg was hit out of my mouth and my mask knocked to my forehead by a bobo student. My first thoughts were - in the space of about 2 seconds - "I don't want to die; wait, I am only 10 meters from the surface; opps, that's right, I am not supposed to swim to the surface. I should "stop, think, act". I then recovered my reg, found my mask, replaced and cleared it by the time the instructor looked back at me. That's a result of proper training.

Wow. I for one and truly impressed with your poise on your first dive to remain calm like that. I am a recently certified diver that was certified in Singapore (July 2013). My school and instructors were very good. However, I am still not so confident that I would be able to react in the manner that you did. My first instinct would certainly be to surface; especially close to the surface.

I was very surprised during my training on two fronts. First, the rigor and velocity of the training. In the States (at least my hometown), the rigor of the training (as related by a very close friend recently certified) is much more intense. To the point that instructors will "accidentally" bump your mask off in a pool dive to see how you react. This did not happen to me in Singapore. Everything is controlled. I understand that is the safe way to conduct training. But there is no other way to teach the instinct without a surprise.

The velocity of the training in the States (or at least my hometown) is much slower too. I was certified in a matter of two weeks here. Two nights of class, one pool dive and an OW weekend. Classroom time and pool time are much more extended to provide as much supervised time in the water.

Perhaps these are contributing factors to the death of the student. I'm not sure what the excuse is for the teacher...

Has there been any other info on this event? A lot of what is out there doesn't really add up to me...

 

[Zippsy]

That's the problem with training here, Unlvrebel. One session in the pool is not nearly enough, particularly when there are more that two divers in the class. I'm constantly blown away that shops here do the class with 8 or even more students who spend no more than 3 or 4 hours (and often less) in gear in the pool. They likely have barely enough time to do each required skill once and that's it. They swim around the pool maybe two circuits and it's time for the ocean? Shocking IMHO but that is how most shops here train their students.

And before anyone thinks I am pointing the finger only one way, the reason they do this is they know that if they add a second pool session, that will raise costs by about S$40 per student and if they increase their course price by S$40, they will not get any students. If the swallow the extra cost, they lose money (or even more money).

 

[jh_MacLeod]

That's the problem with training ... One session in the pool is not nearly enough

I thought I would share the story that is being told by the people who were there. This was a confined water dive; the site is only about 3 or 4 meters deep with sandy bottom. The student successfully disconnected and reconnected his inflator hose. But for some reason, the instructor had some difficulty reconnecting his hose and was without the ability to power-inflate his BCD. The student was possibly doing the regulator removal drill, but for some reason suddenly lost buoyancy and started to sink. Now in a panic, the student grabbed the instructors legs in an attempt to stop descending but pulled the instructor down with him. Apparently neither was able to swim up their rigs and neither dropped their weights. Shows how quickly simple things can go badly wrong. None of these events should have resulted in death, but panic kills.

 

[CarcharodonCarcharias]

The velocity of the training in the States (or at least my hometown) is much slower too. I was certified in a matter of two weeks here. Two nights of class, one pool dive and an OW weekend. Classroom time and pool time are much more extended to provide as much supervised time in the water.

My view on this is that the mentality in the region is not only they want the cheapest certification course one can find, but also the least amount of work and fastest way to get certified. So a slower pace and more frequent pool sessions not only will bump up the cost that Zippsy had already stated, but the extended amount of time and wait to get certified will probably serve as a deterrent for the potential students. So it is like a double whammy for the shops here to do so.

 

[Zippsy]

I thought I would share the story that is being told by the people who were there. .... None of these events should have resulted in death, but panic kills.

Thanks for the info. Being overweighted can help lead to panic in the if anything goes wrong but did your contact say how the two drowned? Did they just sit on the bottom until their air ran out? That doesn't sound likely. Did it happen when the student ran out of air and had a death grip on the instructor, pulling the reg out of his mouth? Possible but just being over weighted in itself won't drown them. Great point though that panic kills.