Devils Throat TAKE LIGHT

[eelpout]

Some dive operators on the island will not take people to this site unless they have evaluated you performance in the water. Some of them will take you there if you are willing to pay extra money.

We are discussing an incident where one person had a problem and resulted in a rescue, CPR, and a Happy Ending. Thanks to the people involved they were trained todeal with the situation and it turned out well for everybody involved.

Now, getting back to my title " who is qualified to do this dive?" We are all responsible for our own actions, but who makes the decision who is qualified to make this dive for the first time?

At the depth of 100' all of us are under the influence of Nitrogen Narcosis. Some people can handle it better than others. A first timer who is task loaded with depth, Dark, directions to follow while swimming, trust, self doubt, fear etc. is soemthing to consider.

How many people can safely say that they can do this dive on 80 cubic tank? Do you have enough air to make a safe ascent form 130' if you buddy runs out of air and have to share your air? I knwo tht the divemasters in Cozumel don't breathe much, but if another diver out of air has to share air with him, does he or she have enough air to make it to the surface with the reccomended 15' stop? How many divers do you have per divemaster on this dives? 2-3-4-6-8? What happens if 2 people have trouble? Are the buddies qualified to deal with the emergency?

I also know that experienced people can lose their composure too, that is why their buddies should be qualified to deal with emergency too.

Back tot he question I started with. Who is qualified to do this dive? Who makes the judgement call to allow divers to make this dive?

Jim

 

[Tim Ingersoll]

We are all responsible for ourselves. I dive with Aldora and was told from the beginning that this was a dive they would only allow you to make after seeing how you perform at depth and how comfortable you are in the water. That being said I would not make this dive on an AL80. I would not buddy with a stranger on this dive unless I had dove with him at serious depth previously. I have a friend with over 100 dives that I would prefer not to buddy with on this dive. I also have a friend with less than 20 dives who I would not hesitate to buddy with on this dive. It all really comes down to how comfortable you are at serious depth, in an overhead environment, in the dark.

I can't imagine the feeling of being panicked, disoriented, confined and then having my reg pulled out my mouth. Holy s*** she was lucky.

Time to take the rescue diver course. I've put it off long enough.

 

[redacted]

How many people can safely say that they can do this dive on 80 cubic tank? Do you have enough air to make a safe ascent form 130' if you buddy runs out of air and have to share your air? I knwo tht the divemasters in Cozumel don't breathe much, but if another diver out of air has to share air with him, does he or she have enough air to make it to the surface with the reccomended 15' stop? How many divers do you have per divemaster on this dives? 2-3-4-6-8? What happens if 2 people have trouble? Are the buddies qualified to deal with the emergency?

I guess I don't understand the gas supply issue for a dive like this. If I recall correctly, the descent and travel to the exit of devil's throat is less than 10 minutes (more like 7). With a SAC around .5 to .6, this should consume about 15 to 20 cf. I understand the other experience and safety concerns addressed here, but don't think gas supply should be very high on that list. Obviously, I'm assuming the dive op has evaluated the gas usage of it divers on previous dives and is not going to do this dive with someone with a SAC in the 1.0 range.

Glad to hear everthing turned out OK and your wife is planning to continue diving.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Some dive operators on the island will not take people to this site unless they have evaluated you performance in the water. Some of them will take you there if you are willing to pay extra money.

We are discussing an incident where one person had a problem and resulted in a rescue, CPR, and a Happy Ending. Thanks to the people involved they were trained todeal with the situation and it turned out well for everybody involved.

Now, getting back to my title " who is qualified to do this dive?" We are all responsible for our own actions, but who makes the decision who is qualified to make this dive for the first time?

At the depth of 100' all of us are under the influence of Nitrogen Narcosis. Some people can handle it better than others. A first timer who is task loaded with depth, Dark, directions to follow while swimming, trust, self doubt, fear etc. is soemthing to consider.

How many people can safely say that they can do this dive on 80 cubic tank? Do you have enough air to make a safe ascent form 130' if you buddy runs out of air and have to share your air? I knwo tht the divemasters in Cozumel don't breathe much, but if another diver out of air has to share air with him, does he or she have enough air to make it to the surface with the reccomended 15' stop? How many divers do you have per divemaster on this dives? 2-3-4-6-8? What happens if 2 people have trouble? Are the buddies qualified to deal with the emergency?

I also know that experienced people can lose their composure too, that is why their buddies should be qualified to deal with emergency too.

Back tot he question I started with. Who is qualified to do this dive? Who makes the judgement call to allow divers to make this dive?

Jim

Who is qualified to do this dive? While I don't think much of the training standards of many of the agencies, why don't we use them anyway?

Going by the standards of some agencies this dive would even be beyond the specified limits for trained cavern divers (because of the depth).

We keep hearing how so many divers do this dive without problems but we've heard about several right here in this short little thread.

My own position is simple. I would go anywhere near this dive with a bunch of OW divers on single 80's. When I say I wouldn't go near it, I mean that I wouldn't be near it. I wouldn't even want to be on the surface anywhere in the area. I've seen to many divers hurt doing goofy stuff they they were taught, or should have been taught, not to do during their entry level training.

I wouldn't want any part of a cave instructor who thinks taking OW divers in there is a good idea either. A cave instructor, above all, has absolutely no excuse since discussion of "trust-me dives" is a part of formal cave training.

We have here, in this thread, a lady who almost lost her life diving another one of these so-called OW diver safe caves. It's nonsense, there is no such thing, especially at 100+.

Why not just make the dive easy safe and fun by getting a little overhead training first?

 

[MikeFerrara]

Just returned from Coz Wed. Dove Devil's Throat Sun. DM said light not needed. DM also said when going thru the pitch black swim thru DO NOT go to the light coming from above and look for opening in bottom. I followed DM into the "black hole" with wife behind me (she wanted me to lead way!!) I found opening in bottom and dropped down. Got into little vestibule facing 2 7ft openings. Didn't see DM and thot I took a wrong turn. Found out later DM was waiting at drop down (fortunately) for other divers. According to dive graph, I waited for a little over 2 minutes until my wife and DM came out. Didn’t know what happened until DM gave emergency ascend sign. My wife had become disoriented and went up instead of down. She got stuck in up shaft and DM pulled her out by her fins. While pulling her out her reg hose got caught on coral and came out. She took in a little water then but ended up putting the reg in her mouth upside down (old reg). When she did that she began breathing a lot of water and a little air.

Wife was unconscious and we began the ascent. DM was pushing air into my wife’s lungs on the way up as she hung unmoving horizontally. I thot she had died. DM got her on the boat and advised us not to get on boat. I thought the reason was he didn’t want me to see her dead. I found out later it was so the DM and boat captain (also a DM) could administer CPR (they saved her life). Another boat in the area came along side and DM told us to get into other boat. I didn’t want to leave my wife. After what seemed like hours DM said OK to get in boat. I knew that was a good sign. Upon getting in the boat I found my wife on the deck gasping for air. (It’s not like on TV when they drag someone onto the beach and bang their back until they throw up water and are good to go). It took another 20-25 min while we made it for Playa Palancar before she began verbally responding.

Got to beach and waited for ambulance. Ambulance arrived and we hauled A to San Miguel Medica Clinic (exceptional and as good as any in the states!). They gave her an IV on the way. Upon arrival we were met by Dr. Pascual Piccolo (excellent dive accident doctor). He took xrays (right lung full of water, left lung quarter full and intestines full). He began treating her with lasix (sp) , diuretics and antibiotics. We stayed in hospital 30 hrs. She was released with lungs almost totally clear. She is OK today.

Morals of the story? Take a light into the Devils Throat, dive with a trained dive op, go to San Miguel Clinic if you need med attention, request Dr. Piccolo for dive related issues, have DAN coverage, ENJOY EVERY MOMENT YOU HAVE, LIFE IS FRAGILE!!! BE GRATEFUL!!!

Is that the moral of the story? Note that you demonstrably relied on the DM for the safety of you and your wife. You apparently didn't know where she was and we in no position to help her. I'm assuming you and your wife were buddied up on the dive. Lights were the least of your problems.

 

[ggunn]

Thanks for the confirmation and info. Proof that you get what you pay for. Folks looking for bargain rates should keep this in mind (or be extremely confident of their abilities in a crisis).

But you were just talking about how you trusted Matt at Blue Angel, and they are among the least expensive ops down there. Are you saying that you think he couldn't have handled the situation? For the record I would (and have) put my life in Matt's hands.

I do not think that you can correlate what a dive op charges for a dive to their ability to handle an emergency.

 

[cowboyneal]

Wow. Glad it turned out well: could have easily went the other way. With whom were you diving? Kudos to them (in the end)...

 

[ggunn]

Wow. Glad it turned out well: could have easily went the other way. With whom were you diving? Kudos to them (in the end)...

He answered that a few posts back; it was Liquid Blue.

 

[pilot fish]

Were you buddying with your wife on this dive? Did you enter the hole at start of dive together ? I just read the whole thread and see no reference to that fact.

I did this dive last year and it still remains my favorite dive. I really wish I could recall whether I carried a light or not but my memory in hazy on this point. My feeling is I did but I can't swear to it. I recommend a light. I just recall a small area, at the start, that is totally black. The other tunnel has light breaks in it and a light is not as crucial. Hope I remember that right?

I remember being calm on this dive and following the DM thru it. But I do realize it is a dive to respect and give some thought to. I did not deviate from the DM direction, staying right behind him, and was in constant eye contact with him. I popped out at 126 ft and still had a good supply of air left. I was with a small group, 5 divers and DM. I would hesitate to do it with a large group.

I am very glad to hear your wife is now ok and even willing to dive again. She must be a rare lady.

 

[Rule62]

Is that the moral of the story? Note that you demonstrably relied on the DM for the safety of you and your wife. You apparently didn't know where she was and we in no position to help her. I'm assuming you and your wife were buddied up on the dive. Lights were the least of your problems.

I'm grateful the majority of respondents understood the purpose of my posting. It's not surprising the variety of responses to a web posting. Most postings have been positive, thoughtful and appreciated although a few (1 above), have been accusatory and I'm compelled to reply. I did "demonstrably" rely on the DM, although not for our safety during the dive, but for a thorough and detailed explanation of the dive and what to expect prior to dropping in, which we were provided. I also had the confidence and trust in the event of an emergency, the DM could provide assistance, if necessary, which he did. As previously stated, I am extremely grateful to our DM and the DO for having the training and skill to save my wife’s life.

We had dove several times with this DM and DO at 100+ft so there were no surprises in qualifications or air consumption. This is not an exceptionally hard dive and, had I not the confidence in our DM and DO, I would not have dove it with them. As they say, “stuff” happens and the bottom line is my wife’s alive! I’m not looking back and “what iffing” we had done things differently and this had not happened, although we did learn a number of lessons along the way. The only “what if” I’m looking at is if we did not have the caliber of DM and captain on the boat my wife wouldn’t be here.