did anyone see that ridiculous on the edge show that was on last night?

[BadLatitude]

wow is helium really that expansive?? how the heck do they give kids ballons and stuff out at fairs , schools and at the circus ,,,,, what about when they release thousands of ballons or fill parade floats. For some reason I dont see them spending millions of dollars to inflate a giant ballon for a parade. The point of the whole thread was. Broadcasting somthing like this show is nothing but a negative on the community. Do you think some uneducated mother is going to let her recently interested child do get certed???? Lets say that causes them to not take a school trip to the FL keys and dive a reef ,, which would further spark their interest in the enviorment and diving.. to go on and find a cure for cancer or somthing. Negative things build with a chain of events as do positive things. Airing a show like that in the manner they did with out an official statement about what they did being an example of doing it WRONG. Makes the community as a whole look like a bunch of cowboys in the uninformed publics eye!

Our sport is as politically challenged as it is challenging and fun. Then again some look at diving like its just easy and happy go lucky like snorkling or like their dive on vacation. Not ever knowing or caring about the safe nor the educational aspect of it. I may refer to diving as a sport but i dont hink it really is. It is more of an activity done by some for pleasure , some for work , some for adventure. Education be it promoting the enjoyment or using the tragic as an example.

Have any of you noticed that the section of the board is COMPLETELY DOMINATED by death and accident posts!!!

 

[jjoeldm]

Never knew about that pro cannabis site- so sorry cant go figger(sic). This sounds like an attempt to discredit me by insinuating that I am a drug user. Low blow mate.
I got the expression from those in life that would like everyone to be wrapped up in cotton wool so they don’t get hurt. You know the type, don’t dive, don’t climb mountains, don’t go exploring caves and don’t even walk out your front door because you might get hit by a bus! Well what the hell was the bus driver doing outside his front door?!?!

Sorry it took me a while to find the time to get back with you on this. Don't start getting paranoid on me. I assume any serious tech diver will NOT be a drug user. The reference was to the expression, not to you. I don't know you therefore could have no info either way.

I can't imagine that there are many cave divers that would fit your description of a "cotton wool" type. Certainly that is not me or any of my buds. But there is a difference between jumping out of an airplane with a modern, safe parachute and jumping out with one you just bought at a yard sale and didn't inspect well before using.

Both acts require some guts, but only one involves the use of higher brain functions. That is my point. There will always be people willing to endanger themselves unnecessarily by engaging in such activities, cave diving, sky diving, climbing, but there are the yahoos and there are the adults. The Yahoos say "watch this!" and fling themselves into the void, taking chances that aren't necessary. The Adults do the same thing, but prepare. They use the optimal equipment, gases and techniques. To me, this group was clearly in the Yahoo category. And as you have indicated, you generally agree. We both applaud exploration and realize that truly living is taking a chance. "Life is either a great adventure or it is nothing."

Absolutely I recognize that their expedition was a cluster F. How could I not?
Yes I do give them points for trying. I will give ANYBODY points for trying. It’s far better to be out there trying than sitting at home wrapped up in cotton wool complaining that getting up from the armchair is too dangerous. If no one ever tried anything the human race would probably still be living in the caves or jungles. Heck we probably wouldn’t even be walking upright.

The difference between walking upright and these guys is simple: they "deselected" at least one of their number out of the gene pool by engaging in behavior not conducive to survival. The ape that stood upright lived to pass his/her genes on to his/her offspring. It's ironic you should refer to a Darwinian model when this group so clearly deserves a Darwin Award for this expedition.

I've noticed two distinct types of tech divers: one is constantly relating stories of near-death experiences and the stories they most admire and retell are the ones in which the divers always seem to "nearly" die or die or narrowly avoid disaster. Then there's another who most admires precision, accomplishment and safety. The stories these divers tell are of expeditions successfully completed and goals completed without serious incident after careful preparation and attention to the details of safe diving protocols. And in my experience, the groups most successfully pushing back the boundaries of discovery in the tech diving world are decidedly in the second category.

JoeL

 

[jjoeldm]

Have any of you noticed that the section of the board is COMPLETELY DOMINATED by death and accident posts!!!

I make reference to this in my reply to Azza. I was just on a boat where one of the instructors constantly reeled off these types of stories. It was as if a dive story isn't even interesting if someone didn't nearly die. Every day this guy was all about "one-upping" his associates with tales of the dead and near-dead. As tech diving matures, I hope this attitude goes out of fashion because it attracts a type of diver to tech diving that is an accident waiting to happen.

Let me amend this a little to say that a serious discussion about accidents and incidents is central to the tenets of safety regarding tech and especially cave diving. Knowing what others did wrong and discussing those incidents is at the heart of learning and improving one's technique. There is a repository that I have been trying to get made public for years that is made up of the AA files for one of the cave diving agencies and a related rescue and recovery organization.

They made a commitment several years ago to make those file public and have released some in drips and drabs, but continue to keep the files in private hands and away from the diving public who could really use them. Power comes from knowledge. These files ought to be available to all tech divers online.

There is a difference between the braggart and those seriously discussing safety-related incidents. I think it's pretty obvious to most people which is which. Most of the posts I've seen here are the latter.

JoeL