Did the DM go too far?

[pilot fish]

Guba, how much bottom time did you have at the 700 psi point and what was the depth of the dive? Sorry if you mentioned this in your original post. I missed that.

 

[mozz]

would like to know that I can dive with a group and not be made to feel like I dont belong. Just my insignificant 2 cents.

susan,

like any other endeavor, you will find good and bad influences. it is a tragedy that in a sport with so much to offer we still have individuals that make people feel inferior, or superior for that matter, based on uw skills. keep up the good work and welcome to our beautiful sport!

 

[Al Mialkovsky]

Susan everyone usually starts out an air hog. Just do lots of diving, get weighted correctly, don't use your arms, only your fins and get your bouyancy and trim down. You'll breathe great in a short amount of time.

 

[DallasNewbie]

As for any "other issues", I didn't see any. My partner isn't into macro photography, so he wasn't lingering, lagging behind, or getting particularly close to structures (others in the group were, however...one pair of scene hogs was DEFINITELY crowding, but that's food for another thread another day.) I was perfectly ready to ascend once we notified the DM we would be doing so. That's why it was a surprise when the DM instructed my partner to take the octo. Caught us both completely by surprise, and we weren't going to argue at 50 feet.

It does sound like the DM was a bit pushy, did you talk to him about it afterwards? Maybe he was trying to minimize his own task loading, between your friend and the rest of the group. In my very limited experience, the DMs in CZM do expect you to follow them and pay attention -- at least until they get to know you -- more than some divers like. I had a chat with my wife the last time we were down there about us being buddies and sticking together, and doing what we thought was the right thing, even if it was contrary to the DM. My reasoning is that we are responsible for ourselves, and we can work out whatever problems the DM has with that on the surface.

 

[mikerault]

DallasNewbie,

I agree! I have had to return to the diveboat, by myself, twice, once on a night dive with limited topside visibility (out of air, it was my first time on a night dive and was a bit excited so I burned air) and once because an inexperienced DM had us wait at the bottom (60 feet) instead of on top for everyone to get in ( a group from Japan insisted on getting in together so they all were trying to get kitted up in limited space) and I ran out of air and NDL before the dive was over.) In the final analysis we are all responsible for our own safety, we die, he may lose his job, but we have lost our life.

Mike

 

[rockjock3]

The DM was probably correct in not allowing the camera if the task loading was going to cause a shortened dive for the others. He has other divers to consider. The DM's error was sharing gas to extend a dive. I always assume the last portion of my tank(s) belong to my buddy, not me. His use of contingency gas to extend the dive is a violation of safe diving practices and I would find another DM on that basis alone.

The DM was nowhere even near his right. Unless a person is flat out endangering themselves (i.e. chumming to draw marine life in) or endangering others then the DM has no authority written or implied to tell a diver they can't take their camera. I don't care how good or well meaning a DM is they cannot look at a person and automatically decide "Oh that is his problem with air consumption so he can't take that or do that".

If it worked that way then we would all be awesome on our air consumption after 1 or 2 dives with a DM because all they would have to do is look at us to tell us what to fix and then fix it for us. Real world just doesn't work that way.

 

[Cacia]

for the freedom inclined, Dive with Martin is a very small boat/operator (Cozumel) that has the attitude "here to serve" which is made easier by the tiny dive groups. They pick you up where you say, they take you where you want for lunch break, they ask you where you want to go, I thought they were fantastic. I did see a lot of very big boats with many (30?) divers and people getting picked up by any operator they floated into.... boat traffic is a concern there, so it is sausage time.

 

[cummings66]

I don't understand how a camera automatically increases a persons SAC to a point where they're putting others in danger and thus aren't allowed to bring it. If anything I would say it would lower their breathing rate.

From what it sounds like he was basically breathing the same as always, we have the word of his buddy that she always has more air left than him, this is much the same. It sounds like a typical dive for this pair.

You know, a DM is one of those people who are never right no matter what happens. I even know some that quit it due to that very reason.

I have been part of dives where the DM said we as a group will do this and that and I have no problems with that as long as I know ahead of time. However on those types of dives every DM I've been briefed by has said you and your buddy go up, we'll join you later. From what little I've heard about the DM I tend to think he's ok, i.e. if the dive was to 50 feet and he wanted to know about the air pressure hitting 700 psi and if that was in an AL80 then he's thinking about your air being your buddies reserve, I just don't get the octo bit and that makes me wonder. Were the conditions in that area such that going up there was a bad idea and he was just trying to get you to a better area to surface? Or was he just trying to prolong the dive until somebody else run low on air and the entire group had to come up at once?

How did the dive end anyhow? Did the entire group come up as one unit?

 

[ckharlan66]

Well this has managed to freak me out. I am new to diving and am a little over sensitive to the terms air hog and hover, dont get me wrong I can take the kidding as well as I can give it. But imagine how we feel ( the ones using the air faster) we feel bad enough knowing that our buddies dive will be cut short at times because of our air usage. Some of these comments are making me feel that we are some sort of a lesser being because we cant hang with the "big kids". I have the highest respect for the dive masters they have to keep everyone corraled up and safe and so far I have been lucky to have great ones and I am always totally up front and honest with my air usage to them. I am also working really hard at decreasing my air usage and would like to know that I can dive with a group and not be made to feel like I dont belong. Just my insignificant 2 cents.

Don't get freaked out on Air Consumption. Most Buddies are just happy to be in the water and it is rare you come across a jerk that cares that his\her buddy uses air a little faster than they do. There is no way we can all be at the same rate and we all "well most of us" understand that one of the divers in the pair is going to have more air than the other when you surface.

Just have fun and make sure you don't get low and are safe and you will be a great buddy.

Chad

 

[Al Mialkovsky]

I don't understand how a camera automatically increases a persons SAC to a point where they're putting others in danger and thus aren't allowed to bring it. If anything I would say it would lower their breathing rate.

On my most recent trip I hauled a camera along on 16 of the 25 dives I did. My sac rate was worse whenever I had the camera because I was always playing catchup. If I were diving alone my sac rate would have been better as you suggested. The good thing is my sac rate is better than average to begin with so it isn't an issue for me, or the group.