Difference between cave diving and cavern diving

[tomfcrist]

When asked why people dive in caves, an answer that is often given is that you either get it or you don't. It sounds like a put down, but it is not. Some people feel a kind of excitement when diving in a cave-like environment. Others feel nothing of the kind. Neither is right or wrong; they are just different feelings from different people.

I really don't have anything to say regarding the original question that has not already been said.

The quote above from John is not only applicable to cave diving, it basically applies to every different niche in the sport... And if you think about it hard enough, it applies to every activity you can think of in life in general. Couldn't be better stated.

 

[kensuf]

As just about everyone else has said, the primary difference is that Cavern Diving is conducted within the daylight zone, shallower than 100', and no further than 200' from breathable air. Cave diving has no daylight, and extended penetrations.

Another major difference is the gear requirements. Cavern diving can be conducted safely with most standard openwater dive gear with only a few modifications, a primary light, a backup light, safety spool/reel, a primary reel, and a couple of line arrows.

On the other hand, Cave diving is very gear intense. Even the most basic cave diving gear involves dual first stages, two backup lights, a primary light, and usually dual cylinders (recommended). As the saying goes, "I only hope that when I die my wife doesn't sell my gear for what I told her I paid for it.."

However, the training is similar. The skills and techniques taught in most cavern courses are the foundation used for cave training.

Cheers!

Ken

---------- Post added December 24th, 2014 at 01:30 PM ----------

And I just wanted to add that I think a well organized and taught cavern course is one of the best courses a person can take to develop their diving skills, even if they never wish to venture into an overhead environment again.

 

[Superlyte27]

However, the training is similar. The skills and techniques taught in most cavern courses are the foundation used for cave training.

Cheers!

Ken

And I'm sure Ken will agree, this above statement does NOT mean that if you are cavern certified, you are qualified to dive in a cave. Nothing could be further from the truth.

 

[boulderjohn]

One thing a good cavern diving course will definitely teach you is why you need more training than that for cave diving.

 

[Superlyte27]

One thing a good cavern diving course will definitely teach you is why you need more training than that for cave diving.

Only if he finds a good instructor. Unfortunately, we know how bad a cavern class gets butchered. The student doesn't know any better and goes home thinking he had the best experience in his life. An outside instructor looking in thinks at the same time, "I sure hope that kid doesn't die".

Do your research. Get a good instructor. I can recommend a few...

Jim Wyatt
Jon Bernot
Reggie Ross
Ken Sallot
Me (Peter McCumber)
Jill Heinerth
Paul Heinerth
Bill Byrd
Rich Courtney

Those probably aren't ALL the good ones, but that's most of the good ones. At least in N. Florida.
Of course that's my opinion, but I judge it by if I weren't going to teach my favorite kid in the world to cave dive, who would I want teaching them. These are the people I believe will teach them to survive.

 

[tursiops]

It will probably come as a shock to all the PADI-bashers, but PADI Cavern only allows 130 ft linear distance out and up, not 200 ft.

 

[Superlyte27]

Dear God man, why would anyone take a PADI cavern class. I'm not bashing PADI, but do you know the pre-req's to become a PADI Cavern Instructor? They are LAUGHABLE.

*Edit*
Actually, "pre-req's" is the wrong term. The requirements to be a PADI Cavern Instructor. As a PADI Instructor the only thing you gotta do is be a Full Cave Diver and have something like 25 cave dives, which aren't verified.

So, I know a guy who passed his Full Cave Class and a week later was teaching a PADI Cavern Class. Yeah, I want that guy teaching in an overhead environment, with nearly zero experience in cave diving.

 

[kensuf]

Pete, thanks for putting me on your list.

The pre-reqs to become a PADI Cavern Instructor, as it was told to me by a PADI instructor, are you must be a PADI Instructor, certified as a Full Cave Diver from a recognized agency (NSSCDS, NACD, TDI, IANTD, etc), and have logged a total of 25 cave dives, some of which may be the ones you did during your training to become a full cave diver. If my information is wrong, I hope someone will correct me.

Every other agency I know requires that you be full cave with a minimum of 100 cave dives post full cave certification. Many require that you also intern with other cavern courses before you can teach the material.

I'm just stating facts, not making opinions.

BTW -- in 2000 and 2001 I was in the process of becoming a cavern/intro instructor with both the NACD and NSSCDS. In order to do that I had to intern with at least six classes at various levels with four different instructors before I would be allowed to attend an institute where I would be examined and evaluated by two different instructors. I made it about half-way before dropping out after the death of a friend (having interned with Tyler Moon, Lloyd Bailey and Steve Berman). Last year I started the process again (this time just focusing on TDI), and have interned with guys like Edd Sorenson, Jim Wyatt, Bill Oestreich, and several others (some of which are on Pete's list). I'm in the middle of my TDI full cave internships right now (just did one with the vice-president of the NACD last week).

In my opinion, cavern is a safety course. Anyone who has gone through a proper cavern course should understand and appreciate the limits and risks associated with breaking them. Sadly, not all cavern courses are created equal, I've seen guys from out of state break pretty much all of the rules while teaching a cavern course.

 

[boulderjohn]

IMO, the main difference between a PADI cavern course and the cavern courses from the major cave diving agencies is the primary purpose of the course. I am in theory a PADI cavern instructor, but living in Colorado with no caverns nearby, I have never taught the course. As I see it, the primary purpose of the PADI cavern course is to make recreational divers safe divers in a typical cavern. That is how I would approach the class.

I think the primary purpose of the cavern course with other agencies is to prepare you for the more advanced classes, and I think those instructors teach with that mind set, even if the student has not indicated such a desire. One of my students asked me last year if I would teach the cavern course for him during a trip to Florida. I asked him why he wanted to take it, and he said he was interested in eventually getting cave certified. On that basis, I refused to do it. I told him he needed to take the class from someone who could take him beyond that level. We still took the trip to Florida, but he took the class from Edd Sorenson instead of me. I thought that was a good choice, even though Edd did not make Peter's list.

 

[Superlyte27]

Edd does actually make my list. Like I said, "that's most of them, but not all of them". Can't remember everyone.

If you're thinking about taking Cavern from someone not on my list, and you want an honest opinion, let me know. I'll tell you whether they suck or not.