DIR 11 yrs. in the big making

[MHK]

chrpai once bubbled...
MHK-

Are you saying that DEMA's statistics will back up your believe that most people quit diving because they don't feel they are safe divers?

I don't think I've ever heard that one before. I thought it was because of cost, or time, or lack of dive buddies. Eitherway if a study has done showing the reasons people quit diving, I'd sure love to see it.

Chris,

You can get the DEMA report yourself from DEMA, as to what you want to do with it, I have no illusion that nothing I say you will ever agree with. Some may want to believe that divers leave for lack of time or money, and I'm quite confident that some do. But to discount the fact that many leave because they don't feel comfortable, confident or competent after the class is simply disengenuous. Similiar demographics and economic stature exsist in the ski market, but you don't see the drop off level amongst skiiers. The problem with many like you Chris, and I'm really not trying to slam you here, is that you need a study to tell you what to think.. Why not just ask a few divers why they quit?? I make a point to ask divers that gave it up, and many say that they took the class, but they were too afraid afterwards and simply didn't have a good time.. If you disagree with that, I have no problem and I'm not going to get into a flame war with you over it.

Later

 

[chrpai]

Mike-

You trip me out. Please tell me where in my message that I disagreed with you? You stated your opinion, and cited a reference. I simply asked to see that reference and stated to you what my existing notions were. Studies are facts not opinions. If the study bears out even a marginal amount of people quit because they don't feel safe then it would be signifiganct.

Why would I ask a couple of divers why they quit when I could look at a study of a much larger, scientific sample?

Seeing that I'm not a DEMA member, can you please see if you can post/email this study to me?

 

[TCDiver1]

MHK once bubbled...


If your sole measure of success is whether a student lives or dies then I see your point..

Some of us look to a greater measure of success other then simply you lived post dive..

No, my point was he is still alive to consider a SSI or GUE course. I am not defending his original OW course which according to him was no good. But yet he had the intelligence, luck and/or skill to survive and move on in spite of what he wasn't taught?

Who did you originally certify with Mike? How many dives did you do before you got involved in DIR/GUE type course or philosophy. Somehow you survived with what you were/were not taught.

I'm not the trying to compare GUE/DIR and PADI. I already agreed that they can't be compared. You will be hard pressed to find me ripping on GUE/DIR in here. What you will find from me is dissent when people allude to GUE/DIR as the only way to dive safe, to dive right etc.

 

[Doc Intrepid]

why do you get sucked into these threads?

lets see...

The US has only existed since 1776 or so, but it has developed a game unique to the US which is American Football and has a Super Bowl each year, which is a huge affair with really cool halftime ads.

Great Britain has existed as a state for much longer, perhaps a millenium or so, but those hosers have only managed to develop the game unique to the British (and perhaps our Aussie friends) of Cricket, which has no Super Bowl and no cool halftime ads.

I wonder why Britain, with several centuries longer in the game development department, has failed to develop a unique game worthy of having a Super Bowl with ads featuring talking frogs and scantily clad cheerleaders? Go figure.

CBF's more recent threads have included 'Split Fins/Frog Kick', 'PADI versus the world', and that unforgettable classic 'DIR Training; donating the Primary?' featuring HIV active students and DIR.

Do a search and review. Anyone see any similarities?

O-ring pegged it.

If responding to these threads is your idea of entertainment, then go for it. But if you're responding because you think the initial question had any rational basis, I suggest there are other threads to jump into where your responses would not be buying into a rather narrowly focused agenda.

Live long and prosper.

 

[MHK]

gedunk once bubbled...


I'm not the trying to compare GUE/DIR and PADI. I already agreed that they can't be compared. You will be hard pressed to find me ripping on GUE/DIR in here. What you will find from me is dissent when people allude to GUE/DIR as the only way to dive safe, to dive right etc.

Fair enough.. I've said this hundreds of times, but I'll say it again. GUE is NOT the ONLY way to dive safely!!!! It's a way that many of us have accepted. I respect anyone's right to dive however they desire, however many of us are of the opinion that GUE/DIR is the safest way to dive.. Does that mean you will die if you don't dive DIR or get trained by GUE?? No.. But the measure shouldn't be reduced to simply whether one lives or dies.. I've long maintained that the day I get out of the water after a dive and the sky is bluer or the grass is greener because I just "survived" a dive, then I'm taking up golf.. Those of us that subscribe to the DIR philosophy simply aren't in a position to chase down every red-herring like some who suggest that DIR is the only way.. Those in a position of authority at GUE have taken many public stances on that very issue and it's impossible to change some people's mind who are looking to cling to a perception so as to make their case.. Some, and I'm not suggesting you are amongst them, but nonetheless some continue to demagogue the issue just as there are some on the DIR side of the aisle that go over the top.. I'd prefer to keep the discussion focused on the merits and not the hyperbole..

Hope that helps..

Later

 

[TCDiver1]

Spectre once bubbled...


Nice to see you found a way to productively contribute to the thread.

Sit down and start reading the divingaccidents yahoogroup, or otherwise poke your head into a place where diving accidents are discussed. The same things keep coming up time and time again and all seem to relate to the same core things... lack of buddy awareness, lack of redundancy, lack of experience, etc. etc. etc.

No, I've not taken any GUE courses nor do I consider myself DIR, but it doesn't take a PhD to figure out that there is a problem with the skills of the average OW student.

Whats the problem Jeff? My opinion? I find the bias in here toward one way being the only safe way to dive to be unproductive but hey, thats the way the board bounces and your the regulator.

Again, i'm not defending poor training but rather the assumption that there is only one safe way to do it.

 

[MHK]

chrpai once bubbled...
Mike-

You trip me out. Please tell me where in my message that I disagreed with you? You stated your opinion, and cited a reference. I simply asked to see that reference and stated to you what my existing notions were. Studies are facts not opinions. If the study bears out even a marginal amount of people quit because they don't feel safe then it would be signifiganct.

Why would I ask a couple of divers why they quit when I could look at a study of a much larger, scientific sample?

Seeing that I'm not a DEMA member, can you please see if you can post/email this study to me?

Chris,

There is no attitude on my part.. The "study", such as it is, is simply a compiliation of responders who responded to a questionarre about "active" participation after OW class. The stats were somewhere along the lines [ I don't have the study handy] of over 70% of OW divers that get certified do not remain active divers. If I recall correctly, "active" was defined as 1 dive in the year following OW class, but I could be mistaken about that definition but I doubt I'm off materially..

That being said, I don't recall any mention of a breakout of economics, time and/or confidence or comfort.. In other words, this "scientific study" requires interpretation and given our history I doubt strongly that we'll arrive at the same interpretation. I respect your right to interpret this study any way you see fit, whereas I choose to ask divers why they quit, in addition to the "scientific study"..

Later

 

[chrpai]

Did they say of that 70% who did not become active divers what the percentages for the various reasons were?

I"m not looking to draw a conclusion, I'm just looking for statistics.

 

[CincyBengalsFan]

detroit diver once bubbled...


Sorry you don't like my attitude.

I still stand by my statement-you don't know a thing about GUE or you would not have made the original post.

Keep standing by it. Ignorance never seems to amaze me. You are a very poor example for DIR-FA/GUE if that's what your intentions are.

I didn't think you could come to this thread without the hatred of PADI and the others and try to start something like you always do. Go argue with the stop sign at the end of your street please. It will show more interest.

 

[TCDiver1]

Doc Intrepid once bubbled...
why do you get sucked into these threads?

Good question .... i get sucked into one these every once in awhile when the testosterone gets outta wack ... i'm feeling much better now.