cornfed
Mindless lemming
And now back you your regularly scheduled drivel...
DIR 11 yrs. in the big making
- Thread starter CincyBengalsFan
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And now back you your regularly scheduled drivel...
The drivel starts when we hear Cincy singing from his pen...
OP
http://home.houston.rr.com/thescubaguy/timeline.html?o=0
I apoligize for not reading your entire post. I'm not usual online at night.
But PADI was founded in 1967 not in the 70's or since the 70's. It was the 60's.
PADI was founded in 1967 by John Cronin (former President of US Divers Corp), and Ralph Erickson (a former university professor).
PADI has philosphy as well. Ralph Ericson has the philosophy of teaching two classes pool/academics then going to the open water for a dive. And so on and so on until all 4 to 5 dives are logged before certification is given.
So if it makes you feel better..Compare that PADI philosophy with the GUE philosophy. Which is not the point of this thread but whatever works. I aim to please...
OP
Fine then...one time....
OINK OINK OINK
Eh... and I duck when I see the KoolAid firehose coming out.
Ben
Its not enough to drink the Koolaid - you can be hosed down by it...
Sort of like here.
It just splashes around and makes a big, sticky mess most of the time. The thirsty will drink it. The satisfied will simply get pissed off, complain, and go try to wash it off.
The important thing is not to drown people in it. A taste is good (the board.) I liked it, I took a sip (Fundys book, gear config.) Wanted a little more, maybe a chug. A chug was fine for me (DIR/F) but honestly, I'm not craving more. (tech 1, rec-ox, cave 27...) I'm cool where I am. (maybe Kool?!?)
For some people, a sip is fine. Its all good. I won't drench ya.
K
Not trying to pick a fight, but...
To become a PADI Instructor you have to have taken Advanced, Rescue and be a PADI DM
PADI DM courses require an intership module or practical training
You must attend a 7-10 day IDC taught by a CD where you must teach a minimum of two knowledge development presentations, two confined water skills and 4 open water skills (I had twice or three times as many during my IDC and consider that about average) along with a 5-part theory exam and skill circuit, then you must complete a 2 day IE run by one of few IEs and usually with one or more CDs assisting with another knowledge development presentation, confined water skill, 2 open water skills, a skill circuit, another 5-part theory exam and a standards exam.
Luckily I passed my IE the first time, but we did have one canidate fail out of 6.
I'm not trying to say the instructor path for both agencies is the same, just that each adequately prepares their instructors with the skills and knowledge to perform the job.
Ben
To become a PADI Instructor you have to have taken Advanced, Rescue and be a PADI DM
PADI DM courses require an intership module or practical training
You must attend a 7-10 day IDC taught by a CD where you must teach a minimum of two knowledge development presentations, two confined water skills and 4 open water skills (I had twice or three times as many during my IDC and consider that about average) along with a 5-part theory exam and skill circuit, then you must complete a 2 day IE run by one of few IEs and usually with one or more CDs assisting with another knowledge development presentation, confined water skill, 2 open water skills, a skill circuit, another 5-part theory exam and a standards exam.
Luckily I passed my IE the first time, but we did have one canidate fail out of 6.
I'm not trying to say the instructor path for both agencies is the same, just that each adequately prepares their instructors with the skills and knowledge to perform the job.
Ben
(or not much of one in any case)....
Let me say that I am somewhat ashamed of the namecalling and nasty comments that I have seen here.
You CANNOT compare the training philosphies of agencies that don't have the same goal.
I have learned much from the tech diving community that I apply to my recreational diving (although SSI defines anything involving staged decompression and gas switches as "tech diving" and I will provide references to that on request). I improved my basic skills. My basic set-up for my doubles is basically Hogarthian. My ascents are slower than many of the other divers out of the shop. I could go on and list things about my diving that are from (I imagine) the DIR set.
I could also list things that are certainly not GUE/DIR. I don't believe in standardized gases. I use the best gas for the dive plan that I have in mind and a dive computer. This is definitely NOT GUE/DIR. I use split fins and do every kick in them aside from backwards. Again, I could go on ad nausem.
I have learned a little from every diver that I meet and I attempt to apply it. Heck, sometimes the students come up with good ideas that aren't in the book. DIR divers are great for "stealing" ideas from. I can't dive their system as I will not subscribe entirely to it and it is very disciplined (I refer to the ability to figure "deco on the fly", I don't use standardized gas mix so that goes out the window.). But I will and do use the aspects of it that I can.
GUE/DIR is meant for people with some diving time. NAUI/SSI/PADI gets them into that water and keeps the market up for divers like myself. Without the open water agencies, whether GUE wanted to grow or not, there wouldn't be enough divers available to justify its existance. But the skills that are hammered home in the GUE courses help to improve what is expected in the open water programs.
GUE/DIR as a system is like a fancy sports car. Everybody that has one is willing to spend the time and money to keep it up as they have a significant investment of both into it (in GUE's case, the training).
PADI/NAUI/SSI is closer to the old Ford Pinto that I had for my first car. It was cheap and got the job done, but it wasn't anywhere near the same car as that sports car.
Cincy, DD, and some of the others here.... could we all please agree to disagree and keep the snide comments to PM's? We are ALL above this and most of the posts from the people bickering in this thread are far more mature than what I have seen here.
As to why I feel like responding, I guess my testosterone is getting too high as well.
And Gator:
Mr. Marc Hall was comparing cross-overs. I do believe that all GUE instructors had be instructing with another agency first. I, for one, knows what the Dive Con level alone involves for training. An SSI instructor goes through much the same process as you describe if they are not a crossover first. I would imagine that a NAUI instructor does as well. But, agency crossovers in open water agencies are notoriously easy as the standards for these agencies are all so similar.
GUE is not really an open water type agency (yet, anyways). So while I understand Mr. Hall's intent he is basically comparing apples to oranges here on comparing training programs.
There seems to be a lot of comparing agency philosphies here that do not have the same goals. But, that has been said many times.
I did enjoy Gator's response as I didn't know PADI requirements for instructors or there pipeline and I will say the same of Mr. Hall's post.
Let me say that I am somewhat ashamed of the namecalling and nasty comments that I have seen here.
You CANNOT compare the training philosphies of agencies that don't have the same goal.
I have learned much from the tech diving community that I apply to my recreational diving (although SSI defines anything involving staged decompression and gas switches as "tech diving" and I will provide references to that on request). I improved my basic skills. My basic set-up for my doubles is basically Hogarthian. My ascents are slower than many of the other divers out of the shop. I could go on and list things about my diving that are from (I imagine) the DIR set.
I could also list things that are certainly not GUE/DIR. I don't believe in standardized gases. I use the best gas for the dive plan that I have in mind and a dive computer. This is definitely NOT GUE/DIR. I use split fins and do every kick in them aside from backwards. Again, I could go on ad nausem.
I have learned a little from every diver that I meet and I attempt to apply it. Heck, sometimes the students come up with good ideas that aren't in the book. DIR divers are great for "stealing" ideas from. I can't dive their system as I will not subscribe entirely to it and it is very disciplined (I refer to the ability to figure "deco on the fly", I don't use standardized gas mix so that goes out the window.). But I will and do use the aspects of it that I can.
GUE/DIR is meant for people with some diving time. NAUI/SSI/PADI gets them into that water and keeps the market up for divers like myself. Without the open water agencies, whether GUE wanted to grow or not, there wouldn't be enough divers available to justify its existance. But the skills that are hammered home in the GUE courses help to improve what is expected in the open water programs.
GUE/DIR as a system is like a fancy sports car. Everybody that has one is willing to spend the time and money to keep it up as they have a significant investment of both into it (in GUE's case, the training).
PADI/NAUI/SSI is closer to the old Ford Pinto that I had for my first car. It was cheap and got the job done, but it wasn't anywhere near the same car as that sports car.
Cincy, DD, and some of the others here.... could we all please agree to disagree and keep the snide comments to PM's? We are ALL above this and most of the posts from the people bickering in this thread are far more mature than what I have seen here.
As to why I feel like responding, I guess my testosterone is getting too high as well.
And Gator:
Mr. Marc Hall was comparing cross-overs. I do believe that all GUE instructors had be instructing with another agency first. I, for one, knows what the Dive Con level alone involves for training. An SSI instructor goes through much the same process as you describe if they are not a crossover first. I would imagine that a NAUI instructor does as well. But, agency crossovers in open water agencies are notoriously easy as the standards for these agencies are all so similar.
GUE is not really an open water type agency (yet, anyways). So while I understand Mr. Hall's intent he is basically comparing apples to oranges here on comparing training programs.
There seems to be a lot of comparing agency philosphies here that do not have the same goals. But, that has been said many times.
I did enjoy Gator's response as I didn't know PADI requirements for instructors or there pipeline and I will say the same of Mr. Hall's post.
I'm not convinced. What you seem to be doing is drawing the conclusion you want to hear from facts that you're not sure about.
I grew up in a small town with a ski hill pretty much in my back yard and I think you're wrong. "Retention" rates in skiing are also very low in my (pretty broad) experince but even at that you can't compare skiing to diving. For one thing solo skiing isn't stigmatized and a lot of people who ski do it solo. That addresses the single biggest problem faced by a lot of new divers, namely lack of a buddy.
Secondly, injury rates among skiers are much higher than they are among divers. Most people seem to think that this is just part of the sport but if we had the injury rates in diving that skiers had then we would probably be subject to government regulation. I for one have been injured several times skiing. All of my friends have had some kind of injury skiing. Most everyone I skiied with as a teenager broke skis, legs, arms, ribs, ankles, heels... you name it. Two people I knew personally died skiing. One took a big jump off a mound and flew off in the trees and broke his neck and the other ran into another skiier at high velocity and broke his neck (and badly injured the other guy as well). Furthermore, I know a guy who fell, broke a ski and then got impaled on it to the point where the ski had gone in through his back and was pushing the skin up on the belly side.
And thirdly, you don't seem to appreciate that many divers (under water tourists) are having fun in large numbers while totally oblivious to the concept of horizontal trim. You look at someone with less than perfect trim and think they can't be having fun but you're looking with a filter and you're not necessarily seeing the same thing as the diver you're looking at.
R..
cornfed
Mindless lemming
True, but he was talking about crossing over from one agency to another, not what it takes to become an instructor from scratch.
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