I think the certification is a great idea. Where do I sign up (seriously)?
DIR-F class will now be a certification class
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just turned purple.
The whole "elite" thing, I predict, will blow this up in their face.
You folks who read the review of the DIR-F class from a guy who recently took it - remember the commentary about sneaking a smoke here and there? No longer. Do that and you fail - your $600 goes down the chute.
But its still not an OW cert (nor could it be, with the bar where it is), so now what? Its a pre-req for everything else, yet its not the "beginning", so what has really happened here?
GUE has stuck a way to grab another $600 from everyone who wants to take ANY of their courses, by placing this as a "pre-req" for certification in front of ALL of them.
Cute.
I'm sure there will be some for whom this sounds ok and who will be sold. I won't be one of them. Sorry.
Tech-1 was on my "consideration" list in a year or so, but its not any more.
The whole "elite" thing, I predict, will blow this up in their face.
You folks who read the review of the DIR-F class from a guy who recently took it - remember the commentary about sneaking a smoke here and there? No longer. Do that and you fail - your $600 goes down the chute.
But its still not an OW cert (nor could it be, with the bar where it is), so now what? Its a pre-req for everything else, yet its not the "beginning", so what has really happened here?
GUE has stuck a way to grab another $600 from everyone who wants to take ANY of their courses, by placing this as a "pre-req" for certification in front of ALL of them.
Cute.
I'm sure there will be some for whom this sounds ok and who will be sold. I won't be one of them. Sorry.
Tech-1 was on my "consideration" list in a year or so, but its not any more.
ScubaDan
Guest
It might be good to keep the DIRF as is and make a separate certification perhaps called GUE BOW. And have the DIRF as a prerequisite
The reason the DIRf came into existence in the first place was most folks did not have the requisite skills to begin much less successfully complete the Tech 1 class.
You must feel that you already have those skills if you were considering the Tech 1 class without taking a DIRf first.
SeaJay
Contributor
I'm with O-ring on this one. There's no way in hell I'd have passed that course if it was a "pass/fail" style course.
On the other hand, I certainly would like to have some sort of certification once my skills are up to par and my lifestyle change is complete. I would love to have something like that to hold personally to tell me "I did it."
...And I can imagine one day going diving somewhere really serious... You know... Like asking the dudes at Ginnie for the keys to the grate, or taking a charter to the 'Doria... Something like that. And while all they can do now is ask for your log book and your PADI/NAUI certifications to decide whether or not you are qualified, being able to show a successfull DIR-F cert card would be a terrific thing.
But the bottom line, Mike, is that if cert cards are offered for the class, then the focus becomes a little different. The students would undoubtedly feel the pressure of success, and over time, there's no question that this pressure would begin to lay on the instructor's shoulders. Eventually, I fear that this whole thing would end up truly "lowering the bar," or worse... Frustrating failed divers so badly that the whole DIR-F class would end up getting a bad reputation.
One of the things that I found so great about the class was the fact that I was there to learn... Not to pass or fail. There is a simple beauty in that, which seems to be a prevalent philosophy in DIR diving. The long hose is simple and functional. The necklace is uncomplicated, simple to use, and dependable. The backplate just makes sense... The body position... The skills... The focus on trim and buoyancy... It's all very DIR; a simple, "holistic," very pure form of diving. In a way, I find it almost spiritual. It's a radical departure from everything else that's being taught.
Simply put, I fear that the pursuit of a DIR c-card is not at all "in line" with the entire thought process behind DIR.
So if you asked me my opinion... And you didn't... But if you had... I'd tell you that I would be disappointed to see DIR-F become a certification course.
That said, I can see the reason why the BOD would want to make it so, and I would proudly hold a DIR-F c-card in my hand. Those who knew (and they certainly will soon if they don't already) would immediately know the skills, the thought process, and the eliteness of such an accomplishment.
...So with all due repect to GUE's BOD, who seems to have already made a decision to make the course a certification course, I have some suggestions:
Perhaps GUE would see to it that it could create a skill level-style certification. Level one, achieved opon completion of DIR-F, could be called, "Level One," or "Beginner," or "Explorer," or "GUE certified." Level two could be Cave Diver I or Tech I or whatever, and so on. Thus, the person earns the certification when they pass DIR-F, but can increase their skill level, and therefore their certification level, on the completion of new courses. This wouldn't be unlike OW and AOW training, but it would have more of a "chain of events" thought process behind it, rather than individual certifications. In a way, this would be similar to other certifying agencies, but just a little more in-depth with it.
...But that's not all. Here's the addition that could make this idea pretty radical: It could be set up so that when a diver takes any GUE class and completes it, they receive a diploma stating that they went to this class and completed it.
Thus, people who take the class and complete it, regardless of their skill level, receive something that said that they did, in fact, take the class. Call it a "diploma" or whatever. But only those who were able to demonstrate those required skills are actually "certified."
I believe that this would prevent the "bar" from being lowered, and at the same time still reward every diver for the effort that they put forth. DIR would not earn a bad rep, and you guys wouldn't be in a position where you felt pressure to "lower the bar."
Whatcha think?
To be perfectly honest, I think the whole shebang is too complicated, and would prefer it to be focused on learning and not on a grade (c-card.) But if the BOD insists, then perhaps they'll consider that as an alternative.
On the other hand, I certainly would like to have some sort of certification once my skills are up to par and my lifestyle change is complete. I would love to have something like that to hold personally to tell me "I did it."
...And I can imagine one day going diving somewhere really serious... You know... Like asking the dudes at Ginnie for the keys to the grate, or taking a charter to the 'Doria... Something like that. And while all they can do now is ask for your log book and your PADI/NAUI certifications to decide whether or not you are qualified, being able to show a successfull DIR-F cert card would be a terrific thing.
But the bottom line, Mike, is that if cert cards are offered for the class, then the focus becomes a little different. The students would undoubtedly feel the pressure of success, and over time, there's no question that this pressure would begin to lay on the instructor's shoulders. Eventually, I fear that this whole thing would end up truly "lowering the bar," or worse... Frustrating failed divers so badly that the whole DIR-F class would end up getting a bad reputation.
One of the things that I found so great about the class was the fact that I was there to learn... Not to pass or fail. There is a simple beauty in that, which seems to be a prevalent philosophy in DIR diving. The long hose is simple and functional. The necklace is uncomplicated, simple to use, and dependable. The backplate just makes sense... The body position... The skills... The focus on trim and buoyancy... It's all very DIR; a simple, "holistic," very pure form of diving. In a way, I find it almost spiritual. It's a radical departure from everything else that's being taught.
Simply put, I fear that the pursuit of a DIR c-card is not at all "in line" with the entire thought process behind DIR.
So if you asked me my opinion... And you didn't... But if you had... I'd tell you that I would be disappointed to see DIR-F become a certification course.
That said, I can see the reason why the BOD would want to make it so, and I would proudly hold a DIR-F c-card in my hand. Those who knew (and they certainly will soon if they don't already) would immediately know the skills, the thought process, and the eliteness of such an accomplishment.
...So with all due repect to GUE's BOD, who seems to have already made a decision to make the course a certification course, I have some suggestions:
Perhaps GUE would see to it that it could create a skill level-style certification. Level one, achieved opon completion of DIR-F, could be called, "Level One," or "Beginner," or "Explorer," or "GUE certified." Level two could be Cave Diver I or Tech I or whatever, and so on. Thus, the person earns the certification when they pass DIR-F, but can increase their skill level, and therefore their certification level, on the completion of new courses. This wouldn't be unlike OW and AOW training, but it would have more of a "chain of events" thought process behind it, rather than individual certifications. In a way, this would be similar to other certifying agencies, but just a little more in-depth with it.
...But that's not all. Here's the addition that could make this idea pretty radical: It could be set up so that when a diver takes any GUE class and completes it, they receive a diploma stating that they went to this class and completed it.
Thus, people who take the class and complete it, regardless of their skill level, receive something that said that they did, in fact, take the class. Call it a "diploma" or whatever. But only those who were able to demonstrate those required skills are actually "certified."
I believe that this would prevent the "bar" from being lowered, and at the same time still reward every diver for the effort that they put forth. DIR would not earn a bad rep, and you guys wouldn't be in a position where you felt pressure to "lower the bar."
Whatcha think?
To be perfectly honest, I think the whole shebang is too complicated, and would prefer it to be focused on learning and not on a grade (c-card.) But if the BOD insists, then perhaps they'll consider that as an alternative.
Spectre
Contributor
... I'm willing to wait until I hear more details about this, but I do admit that it brings up some concerns on my part. From what I understand about DIR-F; Most people claim they wouldn't have passed if it was pass/fail their first time out.
Something with that high of a failure rate is undoubtedly going to induce what I call "repair shop syndrome". You know, that feeling when you take your car in for an inspection and they come back and say "it failed because the brakes are too worn. We can replace those brakes for $139.99 and slap the sticker on it". Do you trust that they are honest, or just trying to suck more $$ out of you.
I understand their desire to have it pass/fail, so that they have proof someone has the basics that they require; but I am waiting with baited breath to hear how they plan on dealing with the high failure rate; both on the personal level and on the business level. How many people are going to want to seek GUE certification if they know it's going to take them 2 or 3 tries to pass, thus amounting to potentially 1 or 2 years due to local course availability?
Something with that high of a failure rate is undoubtedly going to induce what I call "repair shop syndrome". You know, that feeling when you take your car in for an inspection and they come back and say "it failed because the brakes are too worn. We can replace those brakes for $139.99 and slap the sticker on it". Do you trust that they are honest, or just trying to suck more $$ out of you.
I understand their desire to have it pass/fail, so that they have proof someone has the basics that they require; but I am waiting with baited breath to hear how they plan on dealing with the high failure rate; both on the personal level and on the business level. How many people are going to want to seek GUE certification if they know it's going to take them 2 or 3 tries to pass, thus amounting to potentially 1 or 2 years due to local course availability?
sheck33
Contributor
So, you take a class 3 or 4 times to pass because it is hard and we were never taught how to do it properly from the very start. If i have to take that class 10 times to become proficient at it i will, although i wonder if i should be doing that level of diving at all if it takes that many attempts. Personally i dont care if it is pass/fail or not. If it is pass/fail then that will eliminate the card collectors. Suppose you 'fail' the first time, that will give you the information you need to go practice with the GUE guys/girls and pass the next time. But you need to be dedicated. Just MHO
$600? Where did you come up with that number?
The ones I priced were mostly ~$300; the highest ones were ~$400.
Given that you get something along the lines of 24hrs of instructor time, plus the assistant instructors and the videographer, I don't think they're exactly minting money there, Genesis.
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Mine was $300 but we have local instructors. I felt it was well worth the money but I'm not sure I would if I had to do it multiple times at that rate. I expect GUE will come up with something other than simply hitting folks for full fee on required retakes. I don't see them expecting that from people.
I actually was considering doing it again after a few months of practice but based on Mr. Kane's recent posts it seems that I'll no longer be qualified to sip of the holy kool-aid since I still enjoy an occasional smoke. After all, we can't have evil people like me actually carrying paper proof that we took a GUE course
It's ok, I am glad that I was given the chance to learn the fundamentals before this chance went into effect. It did change the way I dive, even if it didn't change the way I live. The lessons learned will stick with me.
WW
I actually was considering doing it again after a few months of practice but based on Mr. Kane's recent posts it seems that I'll no longer be qualified to sip of the holy kool-aid since I still enjoy an occasional smoke. After all, we can't have evil people like me actually carrying paper proof that we took a GUE course
It's ok, I am glad that I was given the chance to learn the fundamentals before this chance went into effect. It did change the way I dive, even if it didn't change the way I live. The lessons learned will stick with me.
WW
that the focus of this (DIR-F) has now completely changed.
It WAS an educational course. You didn't have to drink the kool-aid - knowing that it was there was enough, and having the cup handed to you was cool with them. You didn't have to imbibe.
Now you do, and deeply.
You can't pass if you smoke - never mind that there is no evidence that GUE can cite that smoking is a threat to safe diving at the level DIR-F embodies.
You can't pass if you're overweight on their scale, even though at the level of diving DIR-F embodies, once again, GUE can cite NOTHING to show that there is an increased threat to safe diving.
But heh, its all about choices. I have no problem with a BUSINESS, and that's what GUE is, deciding to tighten their interlock with Halcyon and perhaps a few others. Its cool. Its their choice.
We, as consumers, get to vote with our wallets.
Its called the Free Market and its the way things oughta be
It WAS an educational course. You didn't have to drink the kool-aid - knowing that it was there was enough, and having the cup handed to you was cool with them. You didn't have to imbibe.
Now you do, and deeply.
You can't pass if you smoke - never mind that there is no evidence that GUE can cite that smoking is a threat to safe diving at the level DIR-F embodies.
You can't pass if you're overweight on their scale, even though at the level of diving DIR-F embodies, once again, GUE can cite NOTHING to show that there is an increased threat to safe diving.
But heh, its all about choices. I have no problem with a BUSINESS, and that's what GUE is, deciding to tighten their interlock with Halcyon and perhaps a few others. Its cool. Its their choice.
We, as consumers, get to vote with our wallets.
Its called the Free Market and its the way things oughta be
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