Dive Physicals!?
- Thread starter Kristin Oliver
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Yes, I have encountered it (as described below). This situation is not at all 'unheard of', even if it may be uninformed. It is the prerogative of the individual Instructor or shop to decline to accept a student - it isn't a PADI issue at all. Instructors and shops do not have to accept a student if, in their opinion, there is a reasonable possibility that the student may be injured or harmed as a result of participation. Declining to accept a student is both a matter of managing risk (and liability) and protecting the student.
Unfortunately, the term 'asthma', which has a specific clinical meaning, is also associated with a colloquial interpretation in the lay community that is not infrequently inaccurate, invalid, and / or uniformed. As with a number of conditions listed on the medical statement (which may be labelled as a PADI form but which is, essentially a standard RSTC - Recreational Scuba Training Council - document), a 'YES' response mat not be an accurate representation of the student diver's health. That is one of the reasons why a 'YES' answer requires a physician-signed statement.
I personally prefer to trust the judgement a medical professional, who has (presumably) obtained an accurate and detailed medical history (which is considerably more detailed than having a non-professional answer 'YES' or 'NO' in response to a what may be a somewhat general, non-specific question), and potentially completed a physical examination of the student.
I encountered a similar situation 18 months ago, when one of my Divemaster Candidates was scheduled to participate, with his four DMC classmates, in a Search and Recovery specialty course taught by the Course Director affiliated with our shop. (While the PADI DM course only requires the candidates to complete a 'Search and Recovery Scenario', we have our DMs complete the S & R specialty course which, as taught by this CD, is an excellent training experience.) The DM candidate had already completed all of the Confined Water and Open Water requirements of the DM program, as well as two of the three OW internships that we require. He had, on file in his Student Training Record, a physician-signed Medical Statement, required because he answered 'YES' to the question, ' Have you ever had or do you currently have … Asthma, or wheezing with breathing, or wheezing with exercise?'. On the Medical Statement, the physician - above his signature - had checked the box indicating, 'I find no medical conditions that I consider incompatible with diving.' Yet, the Course Director refused to allow the student to participate in the Search and Recovery course, because of his concern that the multiple ascents and descents required in the course might create a risk for a student with 'asthma'. I pointed out to the CD that the DMC had a physician-signed medical statement, to which he replied, 'Most physicians don't know anything about diving.' In fairness, the CD - a telecommunications engineer by training and vocation - had completed an EMT training program, so he had a bit more than passing knowledge of physiology and pathophysiology, and he clearly knew something about diving. But, he did not discuss the 'asthma' with the student, ask about whether the condition was current or was something he experienced years before, etc. He did not contact the physician who signed the DMC's Medical Statement. Rather, he simply refused to allow him to participate, because he had checked the box on the form. He substituted his judgement for that of a licensed practicing physician, who actually knew the patient. At my request, the shop owner also talked with the CD, who refused to reconsider. I told the CD that, while I respected his right to decline to have a student participate in the course, I thought his judgement was flawed and his action unreasonable. To meet the student's goals, I did a direct application to PADI to be credentialed to teach the Search and Recovery specialty course (and the shop owner paid my application fee), and taught the course for, and certified, the DMC (who did quite well, and who never demonstrated any evidence of any pulmonary issue). I can't say that the course as I taught it was as good as that provided by the CD.
In the case of your girlfriend, I would suggest she talk with other / another shop in the Seattle area.
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freewillie
Contributor
Interesting. I am curious as to what part of the American Disability Act in your opinion is being violated by your girlfriend not being able to participate.
Even among medical professionals with dive medicine expertise their is a wide range of opinions regarding asthma and whether or not individuals with asthma are "allowed" to dive or if asthma itself is an automatic medical disqualification. If the condition is deemed a medical disqualification then there really isn't any violation of the ADA. You just didn't qualify.
I would use the analogy of driving. A blind person can't be discriminated regarding the ADA due to their blindness, but that doesn't mean they can drive. There are certain prerequisite skills required of certain tasks that doesn't mean they are being discriminated against if they are not allowed to participate in certain activities.
And just to play devil's advocate. Since you are an attorney, hypothetically speaking, what would your position be if your girlfriend went diving with the doctor's medical clearance then suffered some injury because of an acute asthma exacerbation?
flots am
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It happens all the time. Even with a medical release, the instructor is not required to accept the student if he doesn't think it's safe, and everybody involved should be grateful, not annoyed.
flots.
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I'm a little confused. Does your scientific class require you to take a physical with an actual "diving" doctor? Most diving physical waivers only require a "doctors signature". It sounds like you already have a waiver, and waivers are good for 1 year. You shouldn't need a new waiver unless the scientific class starts more than a year after your last waiver. And even if it does, you should be able to go back to the same doctor.
The form is designed so any doctor can use it. If you include the instructions that come with the form, they clearly state what the doctor needs to know to determine if you are fit for diving.
BTW - Asthma is usually considered a no-diving condition.
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You should have asked her two years ago... which was when she posed the question. She hasn't been back since.
:d
---------- Post added January 8th, 2015 at 08:49 AM ----------
Yup... lawyers that tell everyone "I am a lawyer" and that they "intend to get some satisfaction" are surprisingly common.
:d
She might be in a bit of a Catch 22 situation.
While asthma is specifically listed as a covered condition, in order to qualify as a person with a disability one must have "a physical or mental condition that substantially limits one or more major life activities."
A "history of minor asthma" would not qualify your girlfriend as having a disability since it does not substantially limit any major life activities. So no ADA protection. However it could potentially disqualify her from diving.
On the other hand, there is case law upholding asthma as a disability in situations where someone currently suffers exercise induced attacks or attacks precipitated by air quality issues especially in the workplace or public accommodations. So if your girlfriend currently had active asthma that "substantially limited one or more major life activities" she WOULD QUALIFY as a person with a disability legally. Of course, that would CERTAINLY DISQUALIFY her from diving medically. (The ADA specifically permits a public entity to "impose legitimate safety requirements" that screen out, or tend to screen out someone with a disability if such requirements can be shown to be necessary for the safe operation of services, programs, or activities.)
So... is her asthma a disability or is it not a disability?
But seriously, while you might not be able to get any satisfaction legally, a competent dive physician should be able to clear her for diving if doing so is medically appropriate. And while any instructor/shop can still decline to take her on as a student even with that clearance... it shouldn't be hard able to find someone who would. I would certainly accept her as a student with clearance from a physician who understood diving.
I've always felt that the release for diving should have a place for the prospective student to indicate "Do you have a friend or family member who is a lawyer that often states their intention to get satisfaction?"
As an instructor, I'd be more worried about THAT being checked "YES" than I would be about the asthma.
:d
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