Diver Dies in Long Sault

[sisterJ]

Bubble Boy once bubbled...

The Daryaw is a beautiful wreck but it is deeper than 75 feet and as GTA said it is not a spot to take someone for an advanced check out. There are better wrecks ie the Keystorm.

BBoy,

My apoligies, I see I have to be a little more literal for some. The Daryaw lies turn-turtle (upside down) in 50 to 85 ft of water. There is nothing to see at 85ft so why go there. There is little or nothing to see at 80 ft, so why go there. You can explore this wreck quite thuroughly from 75ft, hence the max depth of this dive is 75ft. If divers would stay out of the mud it would be a benefit to us all.

In the case of the Keystorm, I fail to see it as a better choice. It comes with it own set of logistical considerations. Since we are talking in terms of depth to the mud, it exceeds 110ft. This is a complication when diving air and most AOW are not nitrox certified. There is also current on the Keystorm and I have been on it when it is ripping. Finally, it sits at the edge of the main shipping lane. These are all risks that have to be managed just like on the Daryaw. Except that on the Daryaw is only 85 ft to the mud and it is not in the main shipping lane and it is right next to shore incase of an emergency.

I never suggested that the Daryaw should be used as a checkout site. But to clarify, it is an excellant site for an AOW graduation dive. And divers should not graduate if they cannot execute such a dive with an AOW level of skill and competency. If you are going to dive in the river; you have to train in the river.

sisterJ

 

[Dan MacKay]

divebuddydale once bubbled...


There are a number of factors that if we sat back we could find alot we would like to change.

Tank at least 80CU FT
More time between OW & AOW
Better Dive site for relaitve newbies


you guys could probably add more I am sure

Dale

Well said Dale.

Finally the voice of reason. Particulary the recomendation for more (I would say mandatory) time between OW and AOW.

 

[Butch103]

.......to be that we have a conflict of information. So I would humbly suggest that unless some of the information providers in this thread can give us unsubstaniated proof of what happened, I again humbly suggest that we stop the back and forth banter and accusations of KDS. I would also provise this statement, that I am in now way associated, aligned or even vaguely familiar with KDS and/or the diver/divers involved ineither tragedy.

Blame is easy to attach to someone else, and therefore it is easy to place the blame on either dive shop involved and also on the diver.

Perhaps until we get unrefuted evidence of what happened, perhaps we should let the deceased and their memories rest in peace.

I am now stepping off my :box:

 

[cat]

sisterJ
Daryaw depth: buddy and I 'only' went to max. 84' on it this past weekend and there was PLENTY of Daryaw below us - and lots to see at that depth - at least in terms of life. Fair bit of current, too. Was told the depth to mud was 92' at upstream end - seemed pretty accurate once we were there. Not arguing - this is just in case someone's using this thread to help plan a dive and wants a "site bottom" CF plan in place.

I have heard more about the Long Sault diver but, as this came via my LDS, who got it from the LDS in question, it is now third hand information, and possibly biased. I'm with Butch on this - let's wait for the real story (if it ever comes out).

 

[sisterJ]

cat once bubbled...
sisterJ
Daryaw depth: buddy and I 'only' went to max. 84' on it this past weekend and there was PLENTY of Daryaw below us - and lots to see at that depth - at least in terms of life. Fair bit of current, too. Was told the depth to mud was 92' at upstream end - seemed pretty accurate once we were there. Not arguing - this is just in case someone's using this thread to help plan a dive and wants a "site bottom" CF plan in place.

.

Cat,

Thanks for the update. If you check the web for info on the Daryaw they list the bottom anywhere from 80 to 120ft.

I usually do not get to dive the wreck until late in the season October or sometimes in November, if the boats are still running. At that time of year the water level is generally significantly lower.

And I have accessed the majority of the wreck from 75ft.

sisterJ

 

[weight_for_me]

Nepean native, 29, drowns while diving

Adam Thomlison

Friday, June 13, 2003 - 08:00

Local News - The death of a 29-year-old Nepean diver who drowned near Cornwall has been ruled accidental.

The man, whose name is not being released at the request of his family, was out on the St. Lawrence River near the Long Sault Marina on an advanced-level scuba-diving class last Saturday morning when he ran into trouble under the water. He and the roughly 10 other divers were in water 26 metres deep about 500 metres from shore.

“Everybody’s still pretty shocked that it did happen,” said a member of the crew on the boat that took the divers out, a charter from Depth Charge Diving Inc. “It’s like a one in a million thing.”

The boat was equipped with emergency oxygen tanks and all three crew members knew CPR and first aid.

As soon as he found out the diver was in trouble, at about 11:15 a.m., the witness said he phoned 911 and called in two of his company’s own rescue divers. Within minutes the divers had arrived and pulled the man up.

The man was given oxygen and CPR until an ambulance arrived. Paramedics continued his treatment until arrival at a Cornwall hospital, where he was pronounced dead.

The witness said scuba diving is statistically one of the safest sports going, a fact which adds to the shock of this death.

“If you look at the safety numbers, there’s less accidents in scuba diving than in bowling,” he said. “That’s an actual fact.”

From "Nepean this Week" newspaper
Randy...

 

[MikeFerrara]

As safe as bowling? Where have I heard that? When was the last time you heard of som one spitting out their lungs or drowning in a bowling accident?

I did see a guy drink to much in the bowling alley bar and fall off his stool. It was terible. He bumped his knee and sprained a finger. I got pretty scraped up once in a wrestling match we had in the billiards room at a bowling alley. Does DAN provide an insurance package for such tragedies I wonder? Oh but those aren't really bowling related.

ok, I got it...maybe you could sprain a finger using a ball that doesn't fit your fingers? Sprain a shoulder with a ball that's too heavy. I suppose you could slip on the lane and bump your butt.

 

[divebuddydale]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
As safe as bowling? Where have I heard that? When was the last time you heard of som one spitting out their lungs or drowning in a bowling accident?

I did see a guy drink to much in the bowling alley bar and fall off his stool. It was terible. He bumped his knee and sprained a finger. I got pretty scraped up once in a wrestling match we had in the billiards room at a bowling alley. Does DAN provide an insurance package for such tragedies I wonder? Oh but those aren't really bowling related.

ok, I got it...maybe you could sprain a finger using a ball that doesn't fit your fingers? Sprain a shoulder with a ball that's too heavy. I suppose you could slip on the lane and bump your butt.

Hey I have seen plenty of bowling accidents, none fatal, but man did Fred Flinstone ever look bad after crashing into those pins, or I remember the time the ball fell on his head ...OUCH...

I think we need to start a new certifying agency P.A.B.I ? (Professional Association of Bowling Instructors) what do you think

Dale

p.s My toungue was firmly in my cheek when I wrote this.

 

[Butch103]

......I have seen that stat before, and as comical as it seems I do not doubt the accuracy of the numbers.

BUT, I think the numbers are injuries and not deaths. So in reality I would firmly believe that ther are far more deaths in diving than in bowling ( kinda makes you wonder how someone dies bowling).

Does this create some sort of false safety valve in our minds? Perhaps maybe.

All we can do as responsible divers is promote good diving skills, which should always include safety first.

BTW Mike and other instructors, a question, do you feel that all divers should at the very least complete the Rescue course within a certain time frame?

And while I am on this rant should we have renewable certs?

 

[MikeFerrara]

Butch103 once bubbled...
......I have seen that stat before, and as comical as it seems I do not doubt the accuracy of the numbers.

BUT, I think the numbers are injuries and not deaths. So in reality I would firmly believe that ther are far more deaths in diving than in bowling ( kinda makes you wonder how someone dies bowling).

Does this create some sort of false safety valve in our minds? Perhaps maybe.

They use statistics to prove that diving is safe. they campare it to things like bowling and driving. Well, more people probably die in the bath tub but so what?

With the proper skills diving isn't that dangerous. However, without them or without a supervisor to pull your but out is sure is. One can screw up pretty bad on shallow dives it seems. They shoot to the surface and and often end up no worse for wear. At places like Gilboa though they don't seem to be doing so well. Why? EMS calls there are nothing new but there have been three in as many weeks.

they call diving safe but refer to cave diving as the most dangerous sport. Here's a statistic for you. More people seem to get hauled out of Gilboa in an ambulance in a single year than all the cave diving incedents I've heard of since I've been cave diving. If they're right about cave diving being the most dangerous or even dangerous period it seems then that taking an AOW class at Gilboa is far more dangerous than that.

All we can do as responsible divers is promote good diving skills, which should always include safety first.

BTW Mike and other instructors, a question, do you feel that all divers should at the very least complete the Rescue course within a certain time frame?

If a diver is going to dive independantly it makes sense to have some rescue skills and knowledge, especially self rescue. The problem is that a lot of that has to do with awareness and spoting trouble before it gets out of hand. Most of the divers I see are busy just surviving and I don't think a rescue class will help them much. The first priority in rescue is avoidance. The best way to avoid trouble or to be prepared to deal with minor problems during a dive are to have solid basic skills. What we're seeing is divers getting hurt and killed because of panicking over silly little problems like free flows. Good basic OW level skills makes such a thing very unlikely.

And while I am on this rant should we have renewable certs?

No. Give some one good skills and info then turn them loose. If they're trained well they'll at least be aware of the need to stay sharp. We can't really tell divers the whole truth though because we might scare off the once a year diver and that's where a huge chunk of the money comes from. Instead we tell them diving is safe and they should even take their 10 year old along and we tell them that they can learn buoyancy control larter. Once I get the training I paid for I want the agency out of my shorts. I'm all for people making their own decisions but they need to have descent info to make them with and too many aren't getting it.

I review the DAN report with every student that I teach. The one thing that sticks out like a sore thumb on the report is the fact that most of the injured divers have little recent experience and poor skills (as evidence by the percentage of buoyancy control and rapid ascent reports on dives that result in injury or death). This years report states over 60% for fatalities. I didn't see the same stat this year for injuries but last years report stated over 40%. IMO, it's a lack of skill in the most very basics that get divers hurt.