Divers acting badly....

[Hoomi]

It seems that among almost all demographics these days, "common courtesy" just isn't as common as it used to be.

I can easily imagine tensions being escalated from both sides, given the tone of this article. All it takes is a local resident to make a snide comment about "tourists" to an out-of-town visitor, and the visitor gets a chip on his shoulder for the locals. Maybe the local is still reacting to a rude visitor from before, or just wants to blame the tourists for making it difficult to find a parking space or whatever.

In any case, it always is easier to point fingers at some other individual or group, particularly if they're perceived as "outsiders". I would not be surprised to find that there is rudeness originating on both sides of the dispute, but the ones who get heard are the residents to pitch a fit to the local press and politicians.

In the end, it can end up hurting them, as if the area gets a reputation of being unfriendly to tourists, the tourists will go elsewhere. My own policy is that there is no shortage of places that would like me to come and spend my money in their businesses. I want to go to the places that appreciate my business, and make me feel welcome (and for my part, I do my best to be the kind of visitor that they'd like to see return, and for more than just the bucks).

 

[shoredivr]

I have always wanted to dive Big Bay Point, but have decided to write it off as an option simply because of the bad press with it in the past year (that I have seen). Oh well.

Dive it in the early spring or late fall when the boats aren't in the water that's the only time I'd go there.

 

[irishsquid]

No idea of the rights and wrongs, but three things make me think there is another side to this story.

(1) They specifically refer to "out-of-town scuba divers"

(2) It is a politician talking.

(3) Finishes by "caution[ing] that any measures, such as parking restrictions, should not impact on Innisfil residents"

Maybe I am way off base, but it sounds like an elected official bashing out-of-towners around election time. I am sure all local divers are impeccably behaved. Or can vote.

I was thinking along the same lines. How does one recognize "out of town" divers?
Is their gear different or something? "Any measures, such as parking restrictions, should not impact on Innisfil residents" Are they going to just apply restrictions on out of towners? Good Luck with that.

 

[Doc Harry]

In my state, it's illegal to dive in the vicinity of docks, marinas, boat ramps and boating lanes. Is there some reason they can't dive somewhere else?

 

[DaleC]

We are currently facing this exact problem at one of our popular dive sites. The municipal government has passed a bylaw prohibiting non resident divers access. We are threatened with having our cars towed and a $2000 fine for "walking" through a municipal park to the waters edge. Of course, residents are free to dive if they wish. Here's the link: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/western-canada/298573-kelvin-grove-officially-off-limits.html

 

[acwest]

I can give some background for this article. The dock in question is one of many docks in the area which were once maintained by the Federal government, but is now under town control (and probably ownership) This doc is effectively only used for fishing and diving, I don't believe I have EVER seen a boat tied up to it, other than PWC's. The divers and the fishermen, in my experience, have gotten along together fairly well.
The divers are pretty much all from out of town, as they drive in, mostly from the GTA. The boaters mostly have cottages in the area, which in this location is as close to being a resident as it gets... Thus, they have the power. There has been a lot of talk of somehow banning diving in this location. Part of the problem is the lack of washroom facilities of any sort, which could be easily rectified by the addition of a porta-potty. Seeing as this would benefit the people fishing as well, it would seem to be a better solution.
A more serious problem, from a diving point of view, is the interaction with the boats. From the end of the dock, there is a fairly long stretch (~30-50 feet?) of relatively shallow water, before the bottom drops off. Once it does, you can follow a line down to over 90 feet of depth, if you can keep your bottom time under the NDL, and there are lines and things to see at various depths. It's a pretty good training site, except for that shallow zone. The boats often come tearing through there at very high speed, though.

 

[irishsquid]

I can give some background for this article. The dock in question is one of many docks in the area which were once maintained by the Federal government, but is now under town control (and probably ownership) This doc is effectively only used for fishing and diving, I don't believe I have EVER seen a boat tied up to it, other than PWC's. The divers and the fishermen, in my experience, have gotten along together fairly well.
The divers are pretty much all from out of town, as they drive in, mostly from the GTA. The boaters mostly have cottages in the area, which in this location is as close to being a resident as it gets... Thus, they have the power. There has been a lot of talk of somehow banning diving in this location. Part of the problem is the lack of washroom facilities of any sort, which could be easily rectified by the addition of a porta-potty. Seeing as this would benefit the people fishing as well, it would seem to be a better solution.
A more serious problem, from a diving point of view, is the interaction with the boats. From the end of the dock, there is a fairly long stretch (~30-50 feet?) of relatively shallow water, before the bottom drops off. Once it does, you can follow a line down to over 90 feet of depth, if you can keep your bottom time under the NDL, and there are lines and things to see at various depths. It's a pretty good training site, except for that shallow zone. The boats often come tearing through there at very high speed, though.

Does GTA mean Greater Toronto Area? I'm assuming their vehicle tags are how they are being known as out of towners. It almost sounds to me from your description, that if the water in the diving area could be zoned (No Wake) to slow the boats down, get the Porta-Potty, get the fishermen on the diver's side to help police the "less than civil" divers, the problem may go away. Then again, it may be inevitable as home/cottage owners sometimes as a group, can be pretty uppity and snooty and just have a "not in my yard" attitude.

 

[shoredivr]

Does GTA mean Greater Toronto Area? I'm assuming their vehicle tags are how they are being known as out of towners. It almost sounds to me from your description, that if the water in the diving area could be zoned (No Wake) to slow the boats down, get the Porta-Potty, get the fishermen on the diver's side to help police the "less than civil" divers, the problem may go away. Then again, it may be inevitable as home/cottage owners sometimes as a group, can be pretty uppity and snooty and just have a "not in my yard" attitude.

Yes, GTA = Greater Toronto Area. Good summation, acwest.

The tensions mentioned by acwest were evident to me in October 2003, when I dived Big Bay Point with a group from a Toronto shop who were doing underwater pumpkin carving. Participants were told that the "residents" were upset by divers parking their cars so that driveways may be impeded, and were also warned that there were no bathroom facilites, ie don't pee in the shrubbery, and don't use huge noisy blasts of compressed air to dry off your dust caps, leave no garbage, etc. etc.

This issue comes and goes IMO, however right now the council member seems more aggressive against divers than ever before.

Seriously, I can't imagine diving there in the summer anyway, not keen on a propeller haircut.



*edit* From the article in question:

http://www.innisfilexaminer.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1699127
"Councillor Rod Boynton supported the motion, but warned that parking restrictions could have a bigger impact on residents, than on the divers. “I hope we don't go after the wrong people.”

Davidson replied that the restrictions were temporary measures, that would be in place while staff investigated other means of controlling use of the docks by divers. “We need to put an end to it, or charge a fee.”

The motion passed unanimously."



Ah, so Councillor Davidson's motives become more clear.

 

[ScubaSteve]

This is not surprising enough to even add the shocked smiley to my post

As for diving BBP early spring/late fall, I will never schedule it but if my buddy wanted to dive it in those times I would.

Yes, GTA = Greater Toronto Area. Good summation, acwest.

The tensions mentioned by acwest were evident to me in October 2003, when I dived Big Bay Point with a group from a Toronto shop who were doing underwater pumpkin carving. Participants were told that the "residents" were upset by divers parking their cars so that driveways may be impeded, and were also warned that there were no bathroom facilites, ie don't pee in the shrubbery, and don't use huge noisy blasts of compressed air to dry off your dust caps, leave no garbage, etc. etc.

This issue comes and goes IMO, however right now the council member seems more aggressive against divers than ever before.

Seriously, I can't imagine diving there in the summer anyway, not keen on a propeller haircut.



*edit* From the article in question:

Divers get under skin of area residents - Innisfil Examiner - Ontario, CA
"Councillor Rod Boynton supported the motion, but warned that parking restrictions could have a bigger impact on residents, than on the divers. “I hope we don't go after the wrong people.”

Davidson replied that the restrictions were temporary measures, that would be in place while staff investigated other means of controlling use of the docks by divers. “We need to put an end to it, or charge a fee.”

The motion passed unanimously."



Ah, so Councillor Davidson's motives become more clear.

Posted via Mobile Device

 

[Guba]

As for the octogenerians being denied docking permission in the original post...

I have no way of knowing the facts, but I can visualize what very well MIGHT have happened. IF there were divers in the water (and I assume they would be flying their flags) and a boat pulled up, I can imagine that divers on the dock would be pretty insistant that the boat stay clear, regardless of the age of the driver. Safety is safety. It's pretty poor journalism that this example be used in an article at all unless both sides could be interviewed and quoted.