Do you dive with your pony valve turned on? Off?

[DaleC]

Sure, I do that quite a bit. But I don't really think I'm solo if I am diving off a boat with a bunch of other people all around me. Solo doesn't mean anti social. If anything, it means being even more aware of what is going on around us, and in that case it means being surrounded by recreationally trained divers.

 

[JohnN]

Sure, I do that quite a bit. But I don't really think I'm solo if I am diving off a boat with a bunch of other people all around me. Solo doesn't mean anti social. If anything, it means being even more aware of what is going on around us, and in that case it means being surrounded by recreationally trained divers.

Come on down to the Southern Provence and dive Hood Canal. The boat operator (PacAdventures) is happy to have solo divers

 

[uncfnp]

You are correct about one thing -- your knowledge is limited. There are regional differences in curriculum for classes. Where alternate air supplies like pony bottles are required or routine, their use is included in OW and AOW classes at the instructor's discretion. Agency standards are minimums, not maximums.


iPhone. iTypo. iApologize.

Correct. I am talking agency standards not individual instructor curriculums since we are talking "paradigm". Do you know an agency that teaches pony as part of its OW or AOW standards?

 

[Kharon]

To my limited knowledge, OW or even AOW recreational divers are not taught pony procedure period, much less to go for this less than obvious alternate air source, when there are at least two very visible, one in yellow, readily available seconds.

+1 for your limited knowledge. My pony, long hose and octo (all very yellow) is set up so the octo is in a holder on my right shoulder front. There is no octo on my 1st stage. It is obvious which reg to grab because my 2nd stage (primary reg) has a hose which is so short they couldn't get it to their mouth. I can unclip the pony (to which I've rigged a handle) and hand it to the OOA diver.

I agree that a pony can't be considered "all mine". That's another reason I keep mine on. I can't imagine an OOA diver sneaking up on me - I'm pretty aware of everything around me (front back, above below, to either side - comes from refereeing football (soccer) for so long). If someone is burning up distance heading toward me, my first reaction is to pop the octo and have it ready for them. I don't want them to pull my main out of my mouth only to find they can't get it into theirs and panic. An OOA diver is simply not going to want to wait for me to open the valve before they get a breath.

I alway discuss this with everyone who will be in the water with me and have them pull the octo to see how easy it comes out and show them how it unclips and the handle. Obviously, someone from another group/boat at the same site wouldn't get this talk & demo so I have to be prepared for them grabbing my main reg. One reason to remain totally aware. Even if they did that my pony is so ingrained that it would be reflex for me to grab the octo and breathe till we could switch.

 

[uncfnp]

In a sense yes, though I'm not all preachy about it.

If you (in a general sense, not you specifically) are diving on a rec oriented boat, doing rec oriented dives, I think there is an expectation that you will act as basic rec training proscribes.That you have a donatable octo, easily deployed and on, and that you will share it if someone needs it. That is what most rec divers expect. To change the paradigm, underwater during a stressed event violates common sense IMO. I suppose if you really will not see anyone UW it doesn't apply, but in my experience people swim past, above, below and around me all the time, sometimes confusing me with the buddy they are supposed to be with.

Of course, if you dive with a select group and describe your set up beforehand and the others both agree and are equipped to compensate for it then ok. I do that when vintage diving. I may say "my octo is my pony reg", or "I have no octo" but I also have to make sure the other diver can cope with the change. Perhaps they use their own pony (alternate airsource) or they are skilled at buddy breathing or they know that the octo will be by my side and not in the triangle but I can't assume all divers will be aware and able to cope if I have not had the discussion. If I were using an inline shutoff valve I would let the other person work it so they had a tactile sense of how it worked. Having a shutoff on a reg and diving with someone who doesn't know it's there or how it works is a bad idea. They are completely dependent on you to make that reg work. Imagine they grab the reg, get no air, and you are trying to grab it away to turn the inline on and they think you are taking the reg away... chaos.

As to preserving the pony for my use only. I can't go there in the rec setting. I may want it to be so but I can't actually act as though it were true if I am diving with others who have only been taught that all regs are available and working. I am asking too much of them. In a best case scenario I will donate the reg I want but if someone is OOA and swims up to me I need to be prepared to lose any reg to them (and switch when they aren't in an emergent state).

To me it is about situational awareness. When I dive with others (such as off a boat) I have to realize that I am in the water with people of a certain degree of training ability and expectation. I can't just wish it were otherwise. That would be situationally unaware.

Interesting. Yes, its quit possible that I will literally not see another diver again after splashing until I board the boat unless I am diving with my buddy that also carries a pony configured and deployed in the same manner as mine. In the rare instances I am in a group, it is usually the boats regulars that know me well (including a lovely older lady that dives a plastic backplate and horse collar BCD). And as I've said, I still have all the standard OW gear as well as the pony in the unlikely event I do run across another diver at the exact time he finds himself OOG.

When I say the pony is for me its not in the sense that another OOG diver can not use it, but rather I realize it is not the taught or even optimal choice with my gear configuration. I really can't see a purely recreational diver going for my pony rather then the traditional alternates.

But to the general concept of mixed tech/rec boats. Is there a protocol/paradigm for this?

---------- Post added December 6th, 2014 at 10:04 AM ----------

+1 for your limited knowledge. My pony, long hose and octo (all very yellow) is set up so the octo is in a holder on my right shoulder front. There is no octo on my 1st stage. It is obvious which reg to grab because my 2nd stage (primary reg) has a hose which is so short they couldn't get it to their mouth. I can unclip the pony (to which I've rigged a handle) and hand it to the OOA diver.

I agree that a pony can't be considered "all mine". That's another reason I keep mine on. I can't imagine an OOA diver sneaking up on me - I'm pretty aware of everything around me (front back, above below, to either side - comes from refereeing football (soccer) for so long). If someone is burning up distance heading toward me, my first reaction is to pop the octo and have it ready for them. I don't want them to pull my main out of my mouth only to find they can't get it into theirs and panic. An OOA diver is simply not going to want to wait for me to open the valve before they get a breath.

I alway discuss this with everyone who will be in the water with me and have them pull the octo to see how easy it comes out and show them how it unclips and the handle. Obviously, someone from another group/boat at the same site wouldn't get this talk & demo so I have to be prepared for them grabbing my main reg. One reason to remain totally aware. Even if they did that my pony is so ingrained that it would be reflex for me to grab the octo and breathe till we could switch.

Kharon. See post #53. I am talking agency (and admittedly mostly US) standards. Not what individual instructors might choose to teach or how individual divers may choose to configure their gear.

Ah, I reread your post and I think I get your point now.

 

[Peter69_56]

One of these, between the second stage and the end of the LP hose: Omni Swivel Isolation Valve
If I have to bail out, I do not want to be turning valves but the gas must be there. Thus, the added failure point and cost of the in-line shut off or slide-check are worth it to me. They're also handy when you're carrying a bunch of bottles slung around you and don't feel like constantly having to refresh charges while scootering.

I used to have these too but realised if you have IP creep you have no protection for your LP hose unless you have an overpressure valve on the primary reg. How often does IP creep happen, well I have had it twice now where my secondary continued to start free flowing if I was not breathing from it. First time for that reg was when it was new, second time was a few weeks ago so now 6 years later and a few services later.

Damn don't you hate it when you respond to a post and then realise you should have read all of them first as your comments are reflected a few posts later !!!!!!!!

 

[C Dub]

Had a great time diving the oil rigs yesterday, pony charged and valve off. Practiced deploying/stowing it at various depths like 100, 80, 40 and safety stops at 15.

Thank you eferyone for the excellent advice.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

I used to have these too but realised if you have IP creep you have no protection for your LP hose unless you have an overpressure valve on the primary reg. How often does IP creep happen, well I have had it twice now where my secondary continued to start free flowing if I was not breathing from it. First time for that reg was when it was new, second time was a few weeks ago so now 6 years later and a few services later.

Damn don't you hate it when you respond to a post and then realise you should have read all of them first as your comments are reflected a few posts later !!!!!!!!

Yeah, I was wondering how many ing times the OPV would have to be mentioned. I just assumed everyone could figure out that if I was talking about using an isolation valve on a reg, they'd understand that an OPV is needed too. Silly me.

 

[AfterDark]

I installed an in-line on/off valve on my 2nd stage hose to enable me to leave the valve on the pony on all the time, and yes there is a OPRV on the 1st stage.

 

[kwinter]

Correct. I am talking agency standards not individual instructor curriculums since we are talking "paradigm". Do you know an agency that teaches pony as part of its OW or AOW standards?

As I said, the agencies set MINIMUM standards. Come to New Jersey and take a class. It doesn't matter what agency, you will most likely be trained in the use of a pony bottle. Because NJ dive boats generally require a second air supply for any dive over 60 feet (individual requirements vary).

Just because the agency doesn't include it in minimum standards does not mean you should spout generalizations like pony bottle usage is not covered in OW or AOW classes, period. I don't think the agency standards include discussion of DIN vs yoke tank valves, but I'll bet you could still get an instructor to help with your DIN tank if you showed up with one.


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