Dolphin and OMG Azimuth semi-closed , differences?

[Diver Mike]

If you are ever going to do the CCR Dolphin route (a very easy route as Caveseeker has said), then you will need two 13's for the Dil and O2 supplies.

So if you can swing it just keep the 13 for that project.

You can get a good used Dolphin from e-bay for under 2,000.00 add in some traing at say 400.00 and a way to monitor O2 for another 200.00 to 300.00 and you are ready to dive.

To convert is around 600 to 800 depending on how you tackle the conversion. More about that when the time comes.

So in a way a Dolphin can be your entrey vehciale and then move to the CCR Dolphin. With either a CCR Dolphn or Kiss you will get a very good insight into the interworkings of YOUIR rebreather (life support) gear.

Mike...

 

[padiscubapro]

Im reading the pro's and con's to each, and was hoping to have some help from the people who are diving both,.,,,, pro's and con's, what they like, dis-like about their unit's, how long they take to clean after a weekends diving, cost? they seem to be similiar in price, and the Dolphin seem's easy to convert over to CCR , but the OMG Azimuth has 2 bottle's, nice feature, suggestion's?

Please note i will be diving both withen rec limit's, and looking simply going from Oc to Semi closed, and enjyoing the quiteness, longer bottom times, and dryer air. Thanks!!

Any help also on add on's, like what other expenses will i have besides buying the rebreather , like bail out bottle's, computer's, any add-on's which will add to the cost.

I have a 13 cubic foot pony with complete reg attached for bail out now i carry, is this enough? Thank you
'

out of all the suggestions you have gotten, one thing should be taken paramount over all others..

NO REBREATHER should be used withiyt a means of determining the loop PO2.. whatever you decide, you will need to add some type of monitoring, besides the computers listed Hydrospace (maker of the Explorer) also has a 3 cell PO2 meter..

 

[Curt McNamee]

You can get into a new KISS from Jetsam for $5,000 plus 3 sensors and two 19 cu ft tanks. For the quality of what you get, I feel it is the best bang for the buck. If you are going to do more recreation type of diving, the Sport KISS is the way to go for less money. It is even more easy to maintain. I will probably end up with one of those for traveling. Take a look at it.

 

[Life-Is-Good-Diver]

If you are ever going to do the CCR Dolphin route (a very easy route as Caveseeker has said), then you will need two 13's for the Dil and O2 supplies.

So if you can swing it just keep the 13 for that project.

You can get a good used Dolphin from e-bay for under 2,000.00 add in some traing at say 400.00 and a way to monitor O2 for another 200.00 to 300.00 and you are ready to dive.

To convert is around 600 to 800 depending on how you tackle the conversion. More about that when the time comes.

So in a way a Dolphin can be your entrey vehciale and then move to the CCR Dolphin. With either a CCR Dolphn or Kiss you will get a very good insight into the interworkings of YOUIR rebreather (life support) gear.

Mike...

Mike im talking to somone right now through emails who has a Dolphin with 15 dives on it for $1,800, or $2,100 with two steel tanks, think thats a good deal?

I really like the Azumith though, all though i don;t see them around other then buying new, and they are over $4k, i thought to start out, id buy the dolphin for 2k, use it for a while, and maybe even CCR it, can you CCR the Auzmith?

Either way even if i buy the dolphin, by the time i buy my bail out bottle, oxygauge, either the Vr3 or Hs explorer, i'll probley me close to $4k by the time im done, but at least i will be starting the road of rebreather's.

I have a class in 3 weeks, the instructor certifes in both Dolphind and the Azi, so i will have a chance to dive both, can't wait!

 

[Life-Is-Good-Diver]

out of all the suggestions you have gotten, one thing should be taken paramount over all others..

NO REBREATHER should be used withiyt a means of determining the loop PO2.. whatever you decide, you will need to add some type of monitoring, besides the computers listed Hydrospace (maker of the Explorer) also has a 3 cell PO2 meter..

Yes i definatley will add that option, im about saftey first, what do they go for?

 

[caveseeker7]

Both are available through Oxycheq directly if your LDS doesn't carry them.
Hydrospace O2 Monitor
Hydrospace Explorer

 

[nitrojunkie]

It sounds like the last few weeks of research has you focusing down on a SCR despite what almost all of us have been recommending on the CCR front.

If cash is the issue you should consider how much this investment will set you back from actually being able to afford a closed circuit unit. I would imagine for about $1000 more than a used Dolphin + oxy gauge and LESS than a used Azi you could have a new Sport Kiss. You probably already own the backplate/wing and 1 of the 13/ft cylinders....

I was certified on a Dolphin in 2001, but never felt that it was a unit worth buying. I rented them from time to time in Cayman, locally in New York, and in Cocos on the Agressor to keep the skills up but always felt that it was not that much of a benefit over O/C. The warm moist gas is a plus, the silence is a really nice plus but the dive times are not all that much longer than what you can do on O/C especially as it sounds like you already have doubles.

SCR also requires a lot of advanced planning and limitations that you will not run in to on CCR, if your dive plans change after you already have your gas fills you can find yourself with the wrong mix for the site based upon potential depth limitations of the nitrox in your tanks. With CCR you are pretty much set to dive whatever the depth or plan, within your own limitations. CCR also is much safer in regards to maintaining constant ppo2 levels and in my opinion is much less risky to dive than an SCR where you just have to guess inspired po2 rather than have a constant to plan your deco.

CCR is also Trimix capable, no mods or upgrades to worry about. Some boats and destinations will not be particularly accepting of a home mod CCR since there is not "official cert" for the unit (good old liability issues).

Dolphin max depth 110' with a 2 hour scrubber using a 35/ft cylinder (2 hours of Gas)
Sport Kiss max depth 150' with a 2.5 hour scrubber 2 13/ft cylinders (5 hours of o2)

Also on 100' 45 minute dive the decompression on SCR will be about 2-3 times as long as CCR.

Sorry to harp on the issue but I used the same rationale I think you are currently using to go SCR first. For me it was a mistake. I wish I had gone straight to CCR and the diversion of SCR held me back from diving CCR for cost and time issues. I am currently diving an Inspiration and will likely go with the Evolution once it ships but would just as willingly consider a Meg, Prism, or a KISS. For that matter, once the Evolution ships the secondary market for Inspirations will probably come close to your budget.

Doug

 

[Life-Is-Good-Diver]

It sounds like the last few weeks of research has you focusing down on a SCR despite what almost all of us have been recommending on the CCR front.

If cash is the issue you should consider how much this investment will set you back from actually being able to afford a closed circuit unit. I would imagine for about $1000 more than a used Dolphin + oxy gauge and LESS than a used Azi you could have a new Sport Kiss. You probably already own the backplate/wing and 1 of the 13/ft cylinders....

I was certified on a Dolphin in 2001, but never felt that it was a unit worth buying. I rented them from time to time in Cayman, locally in New York, and in Cocos on the Agressor to keep the skills up but always felt that it was not that much of a benefit over O/C. The warm moist gas is a plus, the silence is a really nice plus but the dive times are not all that much longer than what you can do on O/C especially as it sounds like you already have doubles.

SCR also requires a lot of advanced planning and limitations that you will not run in to on CCR, if your dive plans change after you already have your gas fills you can find yourself with the wrong mix for the site based upon potential depth limitations of the nitrox in your tanks. With CCR you are pretty much set to dive whatever the depth or plan, within your own limitations. CCR also is much safer in regards to maintaining constant ppo2 levels and in my opinion is much less risky to dive than an SCR where you just have to guess inspired po2 rather than have a constant to plan your deco.

CCR is also Trimix capable, no mods or upgrades to worry about. Some boats and destinations will not be particularly accepting of a home mod CCR since there is not "official cert" for the unit (good old liability issues).

Dolphin max depth 110' with a 2 hour scrubber using a 35/ft cylinder (2 hours of Gas)
Sport Kiss max depth 150' with a 2.5 hour scrubber 2 13/ft cylinders (5 hours of o2)

Also on 100' 45 minute dive the decompression on SCR will be about 2-3 times as long as CCR.

Sorry to harp on the issue but I used the same rationale I think you are currently using to go SCR first. For me it was a mistake. I wish I had gone straight to CCR and the diversion of SCR held me back from diving CCR for cost and time issues. I am currently diving an Inspiration and will likely go with the Evolution once it ships but would just as willingly consider a Meg, Prism, or a KISS. For that matter, once the Evolution ships the secondary market for Inspirations will probably come close to your budget.

Doug

Hi Doug, you mentioned many good points in which i have considered. Im talking to an instructour that has a unit with less then 15 dives, (a dolphin) with two tanks for $1,800.00 , for me that would mean just sell a few steel tanks, and 1 reg of the 5 i have,and im into the world of rebreather's, i thought i would dive it for a while, then i could modify it with Kiss to make it a CCR down the road,or by next year i'll start saving now and spend the $4,500 on a CCR unit,,but for now were $2,500 apart just between the unit's, and training on a scr is only $400 vs $1000 on a CCR.
Keep in mind i will be only diving the unit withen rec limit's, and looking to replace all my OC gear and dive a rebreather all the time.
As far as limition's, it would be just like diving with OC, if i were going to dive 130' i would take 30% nitrox down, and have my 36% fills the boat for my shallower dives, i would do the same with the dolphin, buy a few tanks, have a differnt tanks for diffent depth's, he is giving me 2 steel tanks to start, plus the fill adapter.

What your saying is true, and i agree, but if i wait to buy a new CCR unit, then i wouldnt be diving a rebreather till next year, being the cost is almost double from what i can get right now, so i thought i would go this route for now, then save up and next year i will look hard into a CCR unit. I could just "BUY" either right now, but my wife willnt go for me spending close to $7k right now for a CCR unit, if i sell a few things, and start small, by next year it will just be easyer to walk into for me, now if i was single, i would probley just spend the $7k and just do it, but after being hit by 3 hurrican's here in FL, and spending almost 10k on my house since the storm's, i have to watch what im spending

To tell you the truth, if a slightey used CCR unit came on for 3k, that would make it very easy, and id buy it, and be into a CCR unit then, but ive been watching everywhere for one, they just don;t sell as much as the Dolphin's, you can get them a dime a dozen seem's like, let me know what you think, what i don;t want to do is buy a Dolphin either, and find out that it's not much from diving OC either, besides quiter and no bubbles, im lookign for longer bottom times with less nitrogen buildup, i still have to buy a DUI dry suit here soon, water's getting into the low 70's here soon,

 

[caveseeker7]

... a CCR ... I could just "BUY" either right now, but my wife willnt go for me spending close to $7k right now for a CCR unit

That's another serious danger in CCR diving called Hyperspousia.
Gotta be very carefull with that, can cause serious pain.
And, unfortunately, much like Hypercapnia, there can be no warning,
nor is there a reliable way to gauge it yet.

 

[Diver Mike]

Actully the most dangerous part of any diving SCR or CCR is Hyperspousia.

It can be fatal and there are few if any warning signs.

One of the aftermaths can be the empty house, get a lawyer senario.

At all times in all situations it is inportnat, no critical to monitior Hyperspousia and not to exceed the rectrional or technical limits (depends on your training and courage) at any time.