Tell them how you really feel bubba 
Double hose manufacturers
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Tell them how you really feel bubba
I am not a Millennial.
Besides, I would not want anyone to spend their hard won money on my say and not be happy, sincerely. Nothing good would come from that.
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captain
Contributor
I began diving in 1957 with double hose regulators. I dived with them until 1970 and when service and parts became problematic I switched to the Conshelf and then to a Scuba Pro MK V/109. I went back to a double hose when new improved parts became available from VDH. My main regulator now is a USD Aqua Master fitted with a Phoenix balanced first stage, HPR second stage, duck bill eliminator and silicone hoses, mouthpiece and diaphragm from VDH. It performs as good as my Mk V/109 which I haven't used in over 15 years.
sealark
Contributor
Second stage is where the inhaling comes into play, Both stages are in the double hose above your head which causes a small amount of difficulty inhaling. the exhaust and second stage in the single hose is right at your mouth. I never had a problem with inhaling on a double hose. because that's all that was available when I started scuba diving in 1958. If someone is close to Pensacola I would enjoy trying one of the new ones. I still have all the tools in my box for rebuilding the DA. Didn't mean to offend anyone it's just my opinion.
Reg location in a DH does have a significant impact on how it performs and that has not and can not be changed so it does have to be taken into account. That is the reason the VDH backplate was designed, to optimize the location of a DH reg. Just like the old regs, improperly worn, a modern DH's breathing resistance will increase. A single hose reg is no where as sensitive to positioning. It is a trade off but one I am very willing to give up for the reduced noise of a DH
The reg I had on the test bench was starting to flow gas at around 0.35 ICW, way below what most single hose regs can be set and still be stable and to be honest below what the AK should be set at but I like to set mine on the edge, both in cracking pressure and venturi assist. With the new mouthpiece design I wanted to push it to the limits. Without the new DSV it would not be stable set to these limits and is not recommended by VDH.....don't try this yourself
You have not offended anyone, at least not me but those of us who are familiar the working of the modern DH are going to respond to inaccurate statements. I would totally agree with you if we were comparing a 1950/60s DH to a modern single hose but I think we can both agree that would not be a fair comparison, just as comparing a 50's single hose to a modern single hose would not be. There have been a lot of improvements made to the DH (USD version) over the years that you are not likely aware of. The main diaphragm is now in the second upgraded design with improvements in materials and design. The second stage has been redesigned for better performance, the hoses are made of better materials, the duckbill has been replaced and the mouthpiece valves have been redesigned for better operation with upgraded materials. The AK takes it several steps farther with improved flow in the cans and the DSV design. Today's DH is much different than the ones you used in the 60s and 70s.
The reg I had on the test bench was starting to flow gas at around 0.35 ICW, way below what most single hose regs can be set and still be stable and to be honest below what the AK should be set at but I like to set mine on the edge, both in cracking pressure and venturi assist. With the new mouthpiece design I wanted to push it to the limits. Without the new DSV it would not be stable set to these limits and is not recommended by VDH.....don't try this yourself
You have not offended anyone, at least not me but those of us who are familiar the working of the modern DH are going to respond to inaccurate statements. I would totally agree with you if we were comparing a 1950/60s DH to a modern single hose but I think we can both agree that would not be a fair comparison, just as comparing a 50's single hose to a modern single hose would not be. There have been a lot of improvements made to the DH (USD version) over the years that you are not likely aware of. The main diaphragm is now in the second upgraded design with improvements in materials and design. The second stage has been redesigned for better performance, the hoses are made of better materials, the duckbill has been replaced and the mouthpiece valves have been redesigned for better operation with upgraded materials. The AK takes it several steps farther with improved flow in the cans and the DSV design. Today's DH is much different than the ones you used in the 60s and 70s.
halocline
Contributor
I don't doubt that modern doublehose can provide very impressive results on test machines. But that's not really the point IMO; after all, there are lots of modern single hose regs with tiny 2nd stages and very aggressive venturi assist that kill the test machines, but to me are not enjoyable to dive. We all dive for fun, after all.
It really comes down to preference. Doublehose and single hose regs just act differently, and there are distinct advantages to each. I've never tried a kraken (I would really like to!) but I do have a PRAM that I rebuilt with most of the improvements. In some ways, it's my favorite, but in other ways I like my old SP single hose regs. I'm lucky to be able to dive both.
Given the sometimes absurd ventures of the modern recreational dive gear industry, the work that Bryan, Herman, and Luis (and others I'm sure) have done on doublehose regs is particularly impressive. Nobody's making any money on this, I suspect. But it is a real contribution to the sport.
It really comes down to preference. Doublehose and single hose regs just act differently, and there are distinct advantages to each. I've never tried a kraken (I would really like to!) but I do have a PRAM that I rebuilt with most of the improvements. In some ways, it's my favorite, but in other ways I like my old SP single hose regs. I'm lucky to be able to dive both.
Given the sometimes absurd ventures of the modern recreational dive gear industry, the work that Bryan, Herman, and Luis (and others I'm sure) have done on doublehose regs is particularly impressive. Nobody's making any money on this, I suspect. But it is a real contribution to the sport.
halocline
Contributor
My first doublehose was a DA, and I can agree that despite my best efforts, I never got it to perform up to what I had expected. That all changed with the phoenix nozzle. The IP stability and flow characteristics are BIG improvements and I was pleasantly surprised at how much better it breathed. It's just a much better HP seat. In general you are correct that the 2nd stage makes most of the difference with regards to inhalation effort, but with unbalanced 2nd stages, IP stability and recovery is really important, and that's what the phoenix nozzle provides.
So if you still have your DA and some interest, you might consider getting a phoenix for it. A small warning, though, once you try the phoenix you might get interested enough to go for the HP 2nd stage, silicone hoses, and all the other goodies. It can add up. Still less than a typical new high end plastic regulator set.
sealark
Contributor
It's all been said the original poster has I hope has heard the opinions of everyone. I have also learned a lot about the improvements to my old DA. I suggest he try the new double hose it sound like a great improved regulator. Pm me some photos of the new upgrades parts. Just for curosity. My Da will stay rotting on the wall.
captain
Contributor
Everything double hose is on this site. Here is a link to parts, also visit the forum.
Store - Vintage Double Hose
This is a long thread about development of the Argonaut Kraken.
Project Argonaut, totally new, vintage style DH regulator
Store - Vintage Double Hose
This is a long thread about development of the Argonaut Kraken.
Project Argonaut, totally new, vintage style DH regulator
The HPR 2nd stage update rid the DA/Royal/Voit Navy of all the shortcomings and restrictions of the original design and is used in the new Argonaut Kraken. Adding the Phoenix first stage to a regulator and not updating the 2nd stage to the new HPR is like putting on a 4 barrel carb and wiring the secondaries shut.....As mentioned several places above, the data speaks for itself.
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