DPV Price vs performance

[lostsheep]

A used Sierra is actually a great starter scooter if you're handy.

Can confirm.

A buddy of mine has one of my old sierras. He refinished the entire thing, replaced the seals, updated the prop, upgraded the controller, and got a bigger battery from Explorer Technologies. It's not going to win any races but it is a legit scooter and was a lot less expensive than any other non-blacktip.

 

[lermontov]

the black Tip travel has a rating of 100.5 m - has anyone been deeper with one

 

[rjack321]

Can confirm.

A buddy of mine has one of my old sierras. He refinished the entire thing, replaced the seals, updated the prop, upgraded the controller, and got a bigger battery from Explorer Technologies. It's not going to win any races but it is a legit scooter and was a lot less expensive than any other non-blacktip.

There's an updated prop for the Sierra?

I still have a Sierra with a homemade 20Ah li-ion battery and the more efficient Explorer Technologies controller. It's a tow/backup scooter for cave diving.

edit: it's not fast but solid and reliable - exactly what I want in a cave scooter. At least what I see on the BT suggests to me that the motor, batteries, controller, and software all has "beta" issues that make it pretty unreliable. I certainly wouldn't want to trust my life to a BT.

 

[Whitrzac]

Jona makes an adapter to run the bt prop on the cuda, seirra and SS dpvs.

I talked with someone in the know at divex the travel tube compresses and floods somewhere around 350. The weak spot is the cutouts for the battery mounts

 

[lostsheep]

Jona makes an adapter to run the bt prop on the cuda, seirra and SS dpvs.

I talked with someone in the know at divex the travel tube compresses and floods somewhere around 350. The weak spot is the cutouts for the battery mounts

I made this particular adapter myself but Jona makes them and more importantly sells them too

 

[Whitrzac]

They've sold thousands of blacktips, I doubt there's a higher %% issues with them over other dpvs, They just outnumber all others combined 2:1.

You always plan a dive based on a dpv failure, just like planninng for a bailout or loss of gas on OC. I would argue that 2x bts make more sense for most vs 1 more expensive dpv.

 

[Air1234]

I don't know of any Genesis warp-core type batteries available for the Blacktip unless you DIY'd your own. There are 3-4 people/companies selling third-party 15-20ah batteries for the Blacktip. Most are drop-in replacements.

Basically factor in $2100 for the Blacktip and another $750-1100 for a larger 20Ah battery. If you want a 3d-printed T handle then it's maybe another $125? If you are a DIY-type person with electronics you could easily build your own battery but unless you are experienced with spot welding batteries and lithium battery design it is going to be MUCH safer to buy a third-party battery from someone already making them.

So you're already at $3325usd. There aren't really any aftermarket upgrades that will reduce common failures. Well I guess that's not completely true. You can buy their vacuum bulkhead for $500. Now you're at ~$3825. My opinion is there is still nothing in this price range that compares.

The tube is still PVC. You want to carefully make sure you don't scratch or dent any of the sealing surfaces. The nose cone design is still poor; It tends to warp overtime. The trigger design still not ideal but it works just fine.

The "$1500 scooter" (their original retail price) is now closer to $4000. It still has an overheating ESC, glitchy firmware and ****** customer service. Take all this with grain of salt.

Regarding the P1, my personal opinion is I would not trust it in a cave. I'm sure someone is going to vehemently disagree with me here though. They are definitely more reliable, faster/more thrust than the Blacktip but a P1 does not have enough battery reserve for 5000ft cave dives. You'd need a P2 which opens more failure points and more battery modules.

Personally I loved the Piranha platform. They are awesome boat scooters because of their size but because they are belt driven they are very noisy. I've known many people who have had belt failures. It is rare but it happens. It is also not a failure mode I would want in a cave. The Piranha is also a dead platform. Dive Xtras is not supporting it or manufacturing them anymore although some parts are still available. I wish they still made the P1. It's the perfect boat scooter.

My humble advice is look at better scooter. Unfortunately that means spending more money or finding a good deal on a used scooter. I'm saying that as a personal that owns 3 Blacktips. Even with 20Ah batteries and various mods I have outgrown them and do not trust their reliability but I still own them hence I am still using them.

I was looking at the Blacktip Tech as a starter scooter. For the price I thought it would be a good idea and then upgrade later.

 

[Air1234]

Run the BT until fails and you can't fix it inexpensively. Meanwhile save up for a genesis level DPV if that's your end game. A $2k scoot will do a lot and be a good midway point to see if that's really what you want to do. The o-rings and plastic hull are a potential point of failure, but it's a $2k scooter with $300 batteries (for a pair of 9Ah). You can build a larger battery for abut the same $ or buy one for $700 ish. The through hull prop shaft is the other problem that can't be modify cheap. Again, this is an entry level scooter that is built for diving (unlike those <$1k Yamaha trash scooters) and will do most of what you want without breaking the bank.

FWIW my buddy dropped his travel from shoulder height and cracked the tube. We didn't see the very small (imperceptible) crack under the carry handle strap and he put it in salt water for a dive. It started smoking under water (really cool to see). He sent it back to DiveX and they got him a new tube and remanufactured scooter for $550. Dewalt sent him 2 brand new batteries since they were toast as well (male sure to register them) and they didn't want the old ones back.

This is what I was thinking exactly to start of with but the Tech model.

 

[Air1234]

I am in the same boat - need to get into DPVs, mostly for cave diving. I don't see my dive plans exceeding 5000ft penetration in the next year or so. Hence the question: How easy is it to upgrade BT if you're mechanically inclined?

Looking at various sites, I can get a new motor, upgraded battery packs, and some accessories. What would it take to create Genesis-like battery packs where I can replace individual cells? Will aftermarket upgrades and regular maintenance reduce common failure probability? Can I get a new, non plastic cone?

Also, what's the story with Piranha P1? Is it a DIY-friendly platform? Based on what I know, later P1 versions seem to be better than BT in terms of quality/performance and will also be sufficient for my dives. However, the platform longevity is my concern. Where would one get a new engine, non-PTB battery packs?

@lostsheep - do you have a list of modifications you've done to you Piranha? I am interested in the updated cone and the battery. What would you do if the motor fails? Is it something that one could repair or send out for repairs?

I am looking at the Tech model for the same reason. I figured I would learn on it and then upgrade when I take the cave DPV course.

 

[hawaiian.hokie]

I own two Blacktips (Tech and Travel) and I'm starting to regret it.

My Blacktip Travel just suddenly died on me with no warning (no flooding or other reason it should have). Now the only way to get it diagnosed (not even fixed) is to spend over $100 just to get the tail shipped back to the mainland from Hawaii.

This is the second issue I've had with it. The first time they kept insisting that the flooding tube section was due to operator error, even though I explained to them that I'm super careful when it comes to gear and o-rings (since I take a $10,000 camera setup in the water most dives). They eventually found "manufacturing defects" in their tail sections that was causing it to flood.

When it works, it works great. But so far I've only had negative experiences with the company